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Brighton Atlantic: 32424 Beachy Head

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    Damn! There is always something to spoil a lovely dream
     
  2. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    A bit harsh the valve gear worked very well indeed, the 'problem' was a simple one the ash pan had lower than the design areas for the dampers, and yes a cockup during the build. Proper testing should have identified the problem but the end of steam was near and thus was never sorted.The added benefit of mods to the front end in the smoke box has helped in preservation but the killer was the starvation of primary air to the firebox by the damper issue.
     
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  3. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    I am sorry, I speak as I find, problem with being ex military from the 70's/80's, but I found problems with new diesel locos too when I was a driver out of Hither Green MPD, one class comes to mind the class 60, especially 60001 named Steadfast renamed by all and sundry at HG as Stuckfast when on trials
     
  4. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    Gresley sorted that years before - but then Riddles was a Crewe man, so anything but Gresley ideas....;)
     
  5. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    What are the major differences between the LBS&CR H1 and H2 Atlantics?
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Primarily that when originally built, the H1 class had saturated boilers and the H2 were superheated. Later in their lives, the H1 class acquired superheaters, bringing the two types nearer into conformity.

    The obvious visual difference is that on an H1, the running plate rises from the front, over the cylinders and then dips back down again, whereas on an H2 it stays at the same height behind the cylinder until dipping under the cab. A bit like the difference between Urie and Maunsell S15s in that respect.

    Tom
     
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  7. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    No worry's I'm a great fan of plain speaking myself, twas just that you put the blame on the valve gear when that was in fact the best bit and another area was at fault.
     
  8. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member

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    Visually, the H1 class had the running plate raised twice, over the cylinders and driving wheels, the H2 had the running plate raised continuously over both. Mechanically I don't know
     
  9. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    Thank you for telling me the differences between the H1 and H2, now I wish I had not thrown out the pic's of the H1's I had which I thought were false, yes I do know what you mean about the differences between the Urie and Maunsell S15's
     
  10. Philippakristiana G

    Philippakristiana G New Member

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    I think you will find I did not blame the valve gear, I just called it new fangled, but was latter corrected that it was not new
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't think 'sorted' is an appropriate word! Gresley provided a mechanism that did away with the need for an independent set of gear between the frames but the good theory and the actual practice never really went hand in hand.
     
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  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Maunsell had the right idea with the various three cylinder moguls, which was to build them with conjugated gear, but with all the necessary attachment points to allow easy conversion to three independent sets if the conjugated gear didn't work out, as proved the case. The conversion was thus relatively easy.

    Tom
     
  13. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    Gresly's gear suffered ,in latter years as most of you will know ,from its position under the smokebox , not good for bearings. The Caprotti gear was also used because of its ability to get steam into & out of a cylinder quickly , more so than conventional valve gear. Plus the Duke was a one off.
    Fantastic workmanship with this project! Well done to all involved , cant wait to see her!
     
  14. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Gresley was a Crewe man too...
     
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  15. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    ...and Lancashire & Yorkshire!
     
  16. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    ...and Aspinall and Ivatt, both of whom he worked under, were both ex-Inchicore, and Inchicore was heavily influenced by Crewe.
    Douglas Earle Marsh of course took his H1/H2 design from Ivatt's GNR design.
    How's that for a segue back onto topic?
     
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  17. johnnew

    johnnew Member

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    Also looking forward to seeing the Atlantic running. Have always thought they are amongst the most stylishly proportioned of all locomotives whether as the Brighton or GN versions.
     
  18. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    There are lots of detailed design differences between the GNR Atlantics and the LBSCR H1 and H2 Atlantics.

    Thankfully the NRM have a full set of drawings for the H2 Atlantics.

    When Marsh departed Doncaster for Brighton he took with him a set of drawings for the Ivatt GNR Atlantics, with the full agreement of his old boss.

    The H1 Atlantics were built with amendments in 'red' on the original GNR drawings. The H2 Atlantics had new LBSCR drawings which show the hand of Basil Field, Chief Draughtsman at Brighton. All of Marsh's successful designs showed the hand of Basil Field, and Field dealt with the interegnum before Lawson Billinton took over. Due to the drawing dates I have not the slightest doubt that Feild designed the H2 Atlantics.

    The H2 Atlantics are the most aesthetically pleasing locos, and had they been tested against the original GNR Atlantics would no doubt have out shone them in performance. The H2 Atlantics had piston valves, screw reverser (same as the H1), and longer rear frames. Tom has already mentioned the superheaters - which was a Field touch. There were lots of othe r differences from the GNR Atlantics. Plus later they were all named and such evocative names of the south coast they were too!

    Fred Bailey and his team are to be congratulated on such excellent work!

    Cheers,
    Julian
     
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  19. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

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    On the subject of valve gears - imagine if this was scaled up to 1:1 size:

    http://www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock Pages/6823/index.htm

    Great to see more progress with the Brighton Atlantic and looking forward to the updates as the boiler is overhauled. Hoping to see it again at the shareholder open weekend.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
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  20. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dan,

    I am very grateful for your link. I had no idea the Roy Donaldson/Harold Holcroft 'Super Schools ended up via LBSC in Reggie Hank's collection. I know a couple of Reggie Hanks' miniature locos were stolen at one point and not recovered.

    Completely off topic, but LBSC built 'Tugboat Annie' as the first and only ever example of Holcroft's 4-cylinder conjugated gear.

    I can imagine Holcroft taking Maunsell to see it on the 'Polar Route' perhaps also with Clayton in attendance, and trying to persuade Maunsell to do one of the Lord Nelson's with this gear, with Clayton grinding his teeth! Tugboat Annie was also the first loco with Holcroft's 135 degree crank setting, as used on the Lord Nelson.

    Collett, Riddles, Maunsell, and Holcroft all visited the 'Polar Route' and LBSC's workshop and home at Purley.

    There is a link here with the topic, as Fred Bailey of the Brighton Atlantic project is also a model engineer.

    Cheers,
    Julian
     
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