If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bridge that Gap: Great Central Railway News

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Gav106, May 8, 2010.

  1. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    571
    It's not that easy. Even if the train prep could be done somewhere else which would free up the platform in the morning, there is the problem that when it arrives back after lunch, it can't go anywhere until the slowest diners have finished and got off. This could be unpredictable. The idea that the entire railway could grind to a standstill because someone in their 80s is a bit slow eating their pudding is amusing, but not especially desirable.
    In fact it's even worse than I suggested earlier because in the single-available-platform scenario, if the southbound train from Ruddington is delayed, the northbound arrival either needs to wait south of Loughborough until the delayed southbound train eventually passes through, or needs to arrive at Loughborough and run-round and be cancelled northwards, taking the southbound train's path instead, or needs to arrive at Loughborough, de-train the passengers, shunt to the loop, await passage of delayed train and then shunt back to the platform and re-enter service. Each option sounds like an ever increasing farce to me.
    Having the northbound train make its booked call at Loughborough and await its route north out of the way up by the canal solves all of this.
     
    jnc likes this.
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    843
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Once you have a bit more line to play with it could just head north.... and be propelled back in
    Going to be some line ... but the odd arrangement at the nottm end still perplexes me, A standing pilot engine to draw the train in ? Platform is what 6 Bogies ? at the northern end.

    Easy ( and fun) to look at this like a giant train set, would definitely be wanting to put a Chord through the equestrian centre ( Neigh !) to make a Triangle, but on the ground its all graft, disruption and money...
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  3. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    571
    Lets just say I’ve put 31 years of my life into this project (yes I’m a relative newbie) and hope to do another 31 yet, and I still doubt it will be finished. But to me, that’s the point of it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. J Rob't Harrison

    J Rob't Harrison New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I had a conversation with the FoGCML at the model event yesterday. They are looking at restoring both sides of the canal bridge with a view to getting double track north of the canal; they are aware of the issue that delays on the GCRN could play havoc on the GCR otherwise. I was also told that work on the bridge has come to a stop for the moment for the boating season. And- as ever when I see the Bridge display- I put a few extra £ in the tin to help the job on its way.
     
    pmh_74 and jnc like this.
  5. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    205
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    South Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Is there a solution to the northern terminus issue - it seems to be the missing piece to the Greater Great Central puzzle. Could there be a new station closer to Nottingham, with shuttles into the Ruddington Fields site?
     
  6. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    843
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Like the idea of a small tank as station pilot. North bound stops above the junction and train engine detaches. Pilot comes on and pulls the train along the branch into the station. Train engine moves south of junction.
    Pilot propels back onto mainline, detaches and goes back onto branch, train engine backs onto to train and heads south.
    Either that or have GCRN as a replenishing facility and rotate locos here taking advantage of two engines present to top and tail trains in and out.
     
    SpudUk and Hirn like this.
  7. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    571
    I think the answer to the previous two posts depends a lot on:
    a) whether the land for a triangle at 50 Steps ever becomes available (this would allow direct access to the Heritage Centre from the south)
    b) whether there is, one day, a push to or through the original Ruddington station (either just for the sake of it - though it is in the middle of a housing estate - or to go beyond for a tram connection)

    If we ever had both I think trains could call at the centre in one direction only, which would effectively turn the loco. If we didn't, which currently we don't... who knows, there are various permutations which might work and I expect all will be tried at some point or other.

    Short term, t'n't with a loco from the heritage centre doing the backwards drag from the main line would seem easiest, but without the triangle the train engine is then on the wrong end.

    The way I see it is, lets get the 'gap' closed and sort out the signalling arrangements both immediately north of Loughborough and maybe a fully signalled passing loop somewhere further towards Ruddington and after that, we will have more of an idea of where the demand is, where the pinch points are, and hence what to do next. Rome wasn't built in a day, and all that.
     
    J Rob't Harrison, jnc and Sheff like this.
  8. Hirn

    Hirn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    131
    Gender:
    Male
    A platform would be well placed near to and mutually obvious from the mainline platform at Loughborough
    with the station building and car park. It is far enough to be nuisance on foot from there to Loughborough Central.
    Local buses do come to the station too, but - however potentially helpful to get to Central - are not obvious
    unless you are a local user.

    One platform there would shorten the loop or complicate the working maybe to the point the loop would not be worth having.
    Two would probably, with disabled access between both platforms, be three times the work to make
    - though it should be possible to put an underpass through the embankment without the complication of lifts.

    If the loop is not immediately put in and it is a single line of rails to start with. Would it be too ingenious:
    to put in the underpass in through to the far side of the embankment and then a ramp up to a removable platform
    and be all ready to shift it back when it became two lines and two platforms?

    The underpass would naturally be somewhere at the corner of the car park along from the gate line
    for the Midland main line platforms and ramps would equally naturally go up the embankment sides to where
    the platforms would have to be set along to give space for the points etc before the single line.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  9. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Durham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Could be a hugely unique situation. A double track mainline service. With a choice of two branch services to choose from. Changing at a bay for Ruddington fields or Montsorrel.
     
    SpudUk likes this.
  10. seawright

    seawright New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    21
    Don't like the idea of propelling a passenger carrying train onto a track where there is a standing locomotive. Sounds hairy even if the signalling system could be fudged to allow it. Surely it would be better to uncouple the pilot and back the light loco onto the train while it is standing at the platform. Better for the timetable too as the manoeuvre could be performed while passengers are boarding and alighting.
     
    jnc likes this.
  11. Davo

    Davo New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W yorkshire 56f
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is there any remains of the origional ruddington G.C.R. station platforms? and what was the the road called to access the old ruddington station site was it clifton road at a guess? i thought the idea was or is at ruddington to have a link with the tramstop at ruddington lane. But a runround loop at the ruddington station site like at lecester north would be ok but then it leaves out G.C.R. ruddington fields Nottingham main site, Any chance though of having a station site at both G.C.R. origional ruddington station and the latter i mentioned. But its a case of more money for that idea.
     
  12. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    843
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Indeed , but nowhere in this procedure is a passenger carrying train propelled onto a track where there is a standing Locomotive. It could either be on the same line but the other side of the junction and this isolated by the points or more likely on the adjacent/ loop line...
     
  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    6,558
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham, or Sheffield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'd be a bit nervous about doing propelling passenger trains regardless surely? I'm sure there are ways around it but it doesn't sound ideal, especially for the lengths of trains presumably proposed, 6/7 carriages at a guess?
     
  14. seawright

    seawright New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    21
    My mistake I should have looked at the map first. The old adage that a picture is worth a thousand words is still as true today.
     
  15. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    571
    There aren't going to be any propelling moves down that branch. It's simply too far and the authorities would never agree to it. If they did, I'm sure the GCRN would not run top & tail today. Note, they do run push-pull with a driving unit in the end coach, but they are limited in the number of coaches and by only having one driving module available, so it's not workable for longer main-line trains.

    Original Ruddington station platform survives, though no buildings and surrounded by a modern housing estate. The station bridge has been strengthened in a way which would make it impassable without lowering the trackbed and slewing it away from the platform. My personal view is that if we ever do head back up there we'll have to tackle the bridge, but apparently the road is full of buried services so this would be astronomically expensive. There were originally loops either side here as well as the platform lines, but the Up Loop is impossible to reinstate due to housing encroachment. I'm not sure about the Down side, it's a long time since I was up that way. Oh and the original stairs exited onto what is now a very busy road so probably wouldn't be allowed, and there is nowhere viable for a car park. It's firmly in the 'WIBN' category for the foreseeable future, anyway. A real pity the station yard couldn't be acquired 30 years ago when it was an empty site, but there you go.

    As for a station near to Loughborough Midland, I fear that it wouldn't be as simple as suggested up thread as it would be on a high embankment. The only viable place would be between the new bridge and the chord line where there is a 2-track embankment unlikely to ever get 2 tracks reinstated, but to get anything like sensible access to it you'd need to build another bridge between that embankment and the A60. I quite like the idea personally, but I can't see it being cost effective, for how few extra ticket sales it would lead to. It would also mean stopping trains in the always-single-track section, creating more of a pinch-point for future timetabling.

    All, of course, purely my own thoughts as a long-standing volunteer and not necessarily representative of official policy, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    oddsocks and flying scotsman123 like this.
  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    843
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Then perhaps a long term future aspiration would be a new interchange station with the trams just short of Clifton Boulevard. ?
    Running round three times to get in and out of the GCR N Station is certainly going to add time to an already lengthy journey for the complete line, but it will offer a choice of times/ directions for customers arriving at say Loughborough.
     
  17. Davo

    Davo New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W yorkshire 56f
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I reckon if the structure of clifton road bridge cant be disturbed cos of water mains gas mains etc and the origional arch been reinforced to cope with heavier and more traffic its made the track clearance is impassible. (is there any pictures of how the bridge looks now on google maps or google earth) So the only way round the problem would be to lower the trackbed and see what the maximum height could be gained without causing too much of a steady gradient under the bridge but what about the sides of the bridge also would the alterations give enough clearance widthways under the bridge to trains? and possibly using the down side of ex G.C.R. ruddington sta platform if the up side hasent got enough room for a run round loop.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    205
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    South Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I feel like a new terminus near the A52, with tram interchange, makes a lot of sense both commercially and operationally. The idea of boarding a steam hauled mainline train at Leicester, then running some 18 miles up to Nottingham South/Nottingham Ruddington, then boarding either a branch line train to the railway centre, or a tram into Nottignham, is hugely appealing and would be unique on the heritage railway network.

    Appreciate it's firmly WIBN whilst the gap is still yet to be completed
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  19. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,943
    Likes Received:
    1,931
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    I can't comment on the locality as I've never been to Ruddington but to my eyes are we sure how many of your customers will actually arrive by tram, my guess is some will but many more will arrive by car and to me a large car park is the much more the essential element.

    For those passengers that eventually travel up from Loughbrough and further afield, will they remain on the train with their wallets firmly closed if all there is to see is a few trams passing by on the adjacent tram tracks? After looking on Google Maps what space is available next to those tram tracks for all the other commercial activities that are essential for a terminus station, and whats the point in extending if the site is less than ideal and surrounded by housing? As we all know any such solution will be a long time in gestation but don't fall into the trap of a craving to restore the last 1/2 mile(?) of GC trackbed when commercially it does not stack up.
     
    jnc and 35B like this.
  20. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,126
    Likes Received:
    6,012
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Agreed. "Near the A52" would not be the same as "easily accessed from the A52", and the existing Ruddington base has the advantage of having things to see and do. Putting my enthusiast head to one side and considering what I'd have wanted when taking the kids out for a trip when small, that would have ticked a load of boxes for me that a straight "hammering [at 25mph max on a flat line] up to Nottingham" would not do. Similarly (and ignoring for a moment that I live roughly equidistant from all points on the GCR/GCRN!), the idea of driving to a steam railway to travel to a junction station to get a tram into the city centre doesn't quite work for me - they're two different days out, and I'd be stressed as hell in town about being away in time to make sure I could get the steam train back to my car.
     
    jnc likes this.

Share This Page