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BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    As far as the castings are concerned, there are no differences between Class 7 and Class 6

    Drawing SL/DE/19578 applies to both Class 7 (70xxx) and Class 6 (72xxx). It does not cover 9F; that drawing is listed on the NRM drawing list as SL/BR/1034. The 9F Crosti is SL/BR/1255. I don't know what the differences are as we don't have those drawings.

    For Class 6/7, the difference is in the cylinder liner. Class 7 uses liner item 1 which has an X dimension (internal diameter) of 1' 8" whereas class 6 uses liner item 2 which has an X dimension (internal diameter) of 1' 7.5"

    Ian
     
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  2. std tank

    std tank Member

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    I've had a quick look at both cylinder drawings.
    The main differences are the distance from the outside of the frames to the centreline of cylinder bore and similar to the bore for the valve liners.
    For the Britannias the dimensions are 1'-6 7/8" to the centreline of the cylinder bore and 1'-10 7/8" to the centreline of the bore for the valve liners.
    For the 9Fs the dimensions are 1'-7 5/8" and 1'-11 5/8" respectively.
     
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  3. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Std beat me to it, is the incline angle of the 9f cylinder relative to its frame mounting/pedestal also different ?
     
  4. Jon Pegler

    Jon Pegler New Member

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    I believe that the 9F cylinder centre was one inch further outboard of the frames, compared to the Britannias, in order for the crosshead to clear the side rods.
    It was deemed preferable to produce the 9F cylinders from a new casting than fit a spacer plate between the cylinder and the frame plate.
     
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  5. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Now, you're getting technical. I'll have a look.
     
  6. std tank

    std tank Member

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    1 in 24 for the Brits (2.38 degrees)
    1 in 10.25 for the 9Fs (5.57 degrees)
     
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  7. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    We love technical on this thread.....
     
  8. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answers chaps - considerably different then.
    Cheers,
    Ray.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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  10. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    If you were Gifted a set of 9f cylinders at the outset then you might be able to alter the design of the mated parts to suit but otherwise, like most parts of a 9f, theres not much commonality with the pacifics.

    I Note with interest that the latest preference is for a BR 1F tender, which am pleased about, suppose the profile of the raves can be changed so it looks more like the B/C/D/E/J if anyone is bothered by that
     
  11. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    No Sean, 1F does not have raves but packs quite a bit more water, helps with range of mainline use. Heritage lines only do 25mph so the raves are not quite as important as on mainline, and who goes fast in reverse!
     
  12. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    When Blue Peter suffered its accident on 1-10-64 it was footplate error which caused a significant wheel shift; design does not solve that, only full training of personnel, for every locomotive type! As 'owners' of expensive kit, don't we all expect that?
     
  13. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that BR locos are unlikely to suffer a Blue Peter type incident due to the difference in reverser gear design?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Howdo John, Thanks, am aware that a 1f is not an inset bunker tender .
    To my mind raves are an upward extension of the side sheets above the level of the tank or bunker to give an ' improved' appearance and/or form a 'tools tunnel' ? ( The most obvious examples being on Air Smoothed Bulleid Pacifics or the streamlined 'Duchess'es).
     
  15. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    Indeed so Sheff, my point was that unless the footplate crew know how to do their job then it doesn't matter how carefully you design controls, unless you make all engines the same of course!
    I know NELPG spent a long time writing a Manual for footplate crew after that experience and insisted that all crew be passed on it before running the train.
     
  16. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Even the very wise cannot see all ends...(Gandalf)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  17. northernsteam

    northernsteam New Member

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    Well I can see where you are coming from, but really the raves are a chunk taken out of the high-sided version to enable rearward vision. The tools tunnel can be provided whichever tender design you have.
    Anyway, I look forward to hearing that the fund for the bogie has been reached and the extensions are fitted, hopefully before too long but we must allow the lads their Christmas + break, they have done very well this year.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Originally, a rave was "a permanent or temporary framework to increase the capacity of a cart". On railway locomotives, in the days when a typical tender was essentially a large tank of water with maybe a small box-like compartment at the front for coal. The coal was stacked on top of the tank, and "raves" or coal rails were added to stop it falling off the side.

    From another discussion here on NP, I believe the same feature is called a "fender" on a GWR tender. They always did do things differently at Swindon ...

    On Bulleid tenders as originally built (with high sides), the side extensions provided a tool channel (and married the profile of the tender to the loco); however, the "coal box" was separate and inside. Hence "rave" is not - by original usage - the correct term for that feature (because it doesn't per se increase capacity), though it is invariably used (and was used as such from when new I believe).

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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  19. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    "Do you have raves on your tender?"
    "Certainly not, we have a disco in the carriage shed, but that's as far as it goes..."
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    :Nailbiting:
     

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