Bluebell track laying South from EG?

There was a restriction on how late trains were allowed to run when planning permission was granted.

I have found some further information : -

"Planning Permission for the station was granted by MSDC but with 12 conditions attached. Condition 11 restricts the station operating times to 8am - 10pm Monday to Saturday and 9am - 7pm on Sundays. This is the condition that the Bluebell Railway Co want removed. The condition was imposed by MSDC in the interests of local residents and to comply with the Mid Sussex Local Plan. If this condition is removed, the Bluebell Railway Co could if they wish run trains into the station 24/7."

 

No. The Bluebell Railway has a "stopping place" at East Grinstead as allowed for in the 1985 Planning Appeal from the Secretary of State.

Yes the railway does have planning permission for a Station Building but this imposed so many unreasonable conditions (such as overly restrictive opening hours whereas the adjacent Network Rail station has no such constraint) that Bluebell have no intent of invoking it and are allowing it to lapse. This is why Bluebell's platform is void of fixed buildings and the 'booking office' is a mobile caravan on wheels.

Chris

 

Or maybe some sort of operation as on the NYMR will be possible? i.e a C, H or Brighton Atlantic etc running from the Bluebell to where ever the nearest turning point is, (I should know that but haven't switched my brain on today yet). Or just the H running out and back bunker first?

 

Chris

I was not aware about a " Stopping Place" being allowed. That is good news, I do not remember that being mentioned in Bluebell News.

I just remember an article in Bluebell News stating that due to the restrictions when the planning permission for the station was granted a service such as the Pullman could not run and trying to getting the restrictions removed/changed would be left until they reached East Grinstead, hence my previous comments.

 

What would the point be, though? EG is a pleasant enough destination for anyone starting at SP who just wants a ride through nice countryside and somewhere to have cake and coffee mid way. Why go to the expense of having our own mainline stock just to go a bit further to - where? Oxted? I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd lay money on us having extended to Lewes before we ever have any mainline stock of our own...

Anyway, back to reality, or at least realistic speculation: When the extension opens, I'm sure for a year or so there will be a clamour for big incoming trips to satisfy the "gricer" market out to do new mileage. But once that is done, I'd suggest the best option would be, as someone alluded to above, tapping into the non-gricer London tourist market. Sell them a day out, and don't make it too much of an all-day epic.

So I can imagine something like a trip from Victoria to Sheffield Park, leaving at a realistic time in the morning after the rush hour. On board you would get tea and biscuits for elevenses. Once at SP, optional excursions (maybe by vintage bus) to "the beautiful gardens of Sheffield Park Gardens" (about 1 mile), "the fascinating horticultural gardens and arboretum at Wakehurst Place" (about 5 miles), "the delightful county town of Lewes" (about 7 miles) or "visit the spectacular royal pavillion in Brighton followed by some time on the beach" (about 10 miles) - or even just soak up the atmosphere at the "world famous Bluebell Railway". Come back mid afternoon and you would be back in London by about late afternoon, ready for dinner and a night on the town, having been served high tea on the train. If you left Victoria about 9am, you'd be at EG around 10am and SP around 10:45; going back if you left around 3:30 you'd be back at Vic around 5:15pm.

If you did it with a mid-sized engine - say a Black 5 or even a 4MT tank - and around 8 coaches, you wouldn't stretch the engine too much (so would be more reliable); we'd have space to cope on our platforms which wouldn't be much too short; you probably could do the trip without a water stop before SP. The support crew would have a not too long day out, and would have about 4 hours to turn and prep the engine before returning. The punter would get about 90 miles behind steam, an interesting trip "out of town" and all within 8 hours or so. You could run it on a regular schedule, much like the Scarborough Spa Express, The Jacobite, The Cambrian etc.

Just my thoughts, (though I am not a major follower of the mainline scene, so others may have a different view of what is viable).

Tom

 

Sounds an eminently sensible day out to me. Some mainline excursions - indeed, it seems the majority these days, are enjoyable but something of a n endurance test (especially if you take your non-enthusiast wife.) I hope that if the Hosking/SVR discussions regarding 80079 come to fruition that it will lead to a renewed interest in shorter trips. Certainly Victoria-Sheffield Park is just the right length if you don't want to arrive home at 11PM (or later) absolutely shattered. So I think you've got one taker for your trains, Tom, and the extension isn't even complete yet!

 

Jamessequared suggestions seem eminently successfull. However instead of doing it with steam, with all the attendent problems this causes, do it with the soon to be restored Brighton Pulman set. Elevenses on the outward journey and high tea on the return, changing at East Grinstead to steam (either in style in another pulman car, or nice an cosy in a real vintage coach). Such trips should be run weekly for most of the year and marketed as a "must to" to all London Tourists.
Remember that thanks to the UK film and TV industry, Horsted Keynes is known (if not by name) to an very large number of UK visitors.

On the rare occassions when incoming steam railtours to run to the Bluebell, can not 12 coach trains be handled, by runing direct to Horstead Keynes and dividing the train into two 6 coach trains? (Provided that a second air braked locomotive is available.)

 

I can't help remembering those photos in Railway Magazine around 1963 of the Caley single (now in the Glasgow museum) bringing an excursion train onto the Bluebell - access was from Haywards Heath in those days. The impossible dream would be a repeat of that splendid engine arriving via East Grinstead. The 0-6-0 no.828 would be a worthy substitute.

 

And the T9 in fake LSWR livery I wonder if our museum still has "The Blue Belle" headboard?

Tom

 

I'm only just too young to have been on that tour. But I'm grateful that the sole surviving T9 is now in BR livery - that fake LSWR livery looked awful!

 

Should the Bluebell ever reach Haywards Heath there is the possibly of running Haywards Heath to Sheffield Park but via the triangle although it may have to go quite slowly over it and would also be dependant on the sharpness on the line from the Ardingly branch to the running line.

 

given that there are gauging issues with running steam to East Grinstead, i think that using the Brighton belle unit makes good sence, any tour company would be looking at the top end market and london tourists would be most likily to be interested everyone has heard of the Bluebelle, and the chance to ride on the Brighton belle and then to transfer onto a steam train for a trip to Shefield park with a coach trip to sheffield guardens for those who dont want to look around the station(and pub) with a late afternoon return to london to maximise possible income the bessemer arms could even be used to provide lunch for the people off the charter rather than having a meal on the train, except for high tea on the pulman on the return