Bluebell track laying South from EG?

It's the external one - it's no longer in the bushes at Singleton, but is now at Kingscote, though not yet erected.

The one in the shed at Singleton is still in situ AFAIK. Yes, shame we can't have the shed but the stations on the line only had small lock-up sheds anyway (rather than large, drive-thru examples as at Singleton) so the one that will go in the yard is more in keeping with what was previously at KC, and in fact comes from HK so another historic building gets preserved.

Tom

 

For info, in a SVR shareholders' newsletter in 2010 the GM commented that a report, commissioned by Advantage West Midlands, suggested the SVR's annual contribution to the local economy is £10.9m

Patrick

 

To get back to the tip for a moment. Halfway through the dig it was decided to switch the course of the cutting to the outside of the curve rather than the inside. At the time this seemed counter-intuitive. However might it have been that test borings showed less refuse on that side and more clay that could be disposed of locally.

On the other hand it could just be blind luck that so much of what remains is clay. Perhaps someone can enlighten us.

 

Wasn't due to test borings AFAIK. The original plan was to keep to the inside of the cutting - it's the shorter route (albeit only by a few metres, but still...) However, what emerged was that during the filling of the cutting in the 1970s, the inside (western) edge of the cutting had effectively been destroyed, because the council had dug various haul roads etc into the cutting side. So the railway was not able to find the line of the western edge of the cutting. Therefore, they swapped sides to follow the outside (eastern) edge, which remained well defined.

I don't suppose we'll ever know, but I'd doubt that there is much difference between east and west sides as to how much clay there is on the cutting floor. It looks a bit like a layer of clay was put down first to stop water leaching through the tip into the water table; then the waste; then another layer of clay capping. If that's the case, I'd imagine that what has been found on the eastern side of the cutting stretches across to the western.

Tom

 

Well it seems that the 30k doubling has been exhausted, total donated £30,734 total doubled £60,734

 

Indeed - about £6,500 donated in 11 minutes this morning to complete the total!

If anyone missed out, one or more anonymous donors have agreed to double any monies paid to the Chit Chat Express if they are made by midnight on Friday, up to a maximum of £1000 - donate at www.JustGiving.com/ChitChatXpress. Proceeds go to the Northern Extension Project.

Tom

 

Today's waste by rail train has been cancelled, as the locomotive was needed for de-icing duties. (In case any one hasn't noticed, it's got colder!)

So that is the end of WBR this year: an assessment will now be made of how much, if any, waste still needs to be removed before covering up what remains and landscaping the cutting.

It's been a pretty stellar effort on both the dig and fundraising count: about 90,000 tons of waste has been removed so far, of which about 75,000 tons has gone this year by my reckoning.

Tom

 

There is an update on the Bluebell extension page, bringing things up-to-date to the end of WBR5.

The total removed to date is 90,981 tons. See Bluebell Railway - East Grinstead Extension Progress where there is also an interesting photo from one of the team from inside the tip, looking south towards Imberhorne Bridge - this gives a different view to the normal photos taken from one bridge or the other looking towards the tip.

Over £100,000 was raised during the week of the "Big Give" though as usual, plenty more money is still needed!

Tom

 

Presumably thoughts now turn to securing the remaining waste on the cutting sides by whatever methods, ie securing mesh to retain the waste and spaying with a medium that will allow vegetation to grow. Presumably by now there is a good understanding of what sort of waste remains, and its current state of decay, and how it is likely to change over time if sealed over on the cutting sides.

 

With all the talk in the latest Bluebell News about turning triangles and discussion with charter operators, can someone in the know lay to rest the issues concerning gauging between Hurst Green and East Grinstead? I am sure that someone (perhaps even earlier in this thread) mentioned that the track had been raised where the Hurst Green- East Grinstead line passes under the Redhill-Tonbridge route and that therefore it will be impossible to run any main line steam through the the Bluebell as there will be a clearance problem.

If this is the case, it does seem strange to me that the turning triangle has been authorised by the Bluebell board. I could imagine that there may be restrictions on what can run through (no Duchesses or A4s perhaps, and of course no big GWR 4-6-0s) but do "black fives" and Bulleids require that much more clearance than a class 66 diesel? If so, I guess this means it's Tyseley's panniers and/or 9466 from Oxted to Sheffield Park until 2500 is restored.

When 45407 ran to Uckfield a few years back, it was originally scheduled to visit East Grintead as well, and I was told that this section of the route was cancelled because of platform/pathing issues rather than clearance. Was this the case?

 

John

It was me who mentioned the clearance issue. I was told about it by a working member of the Bluebell.

Drivers had complained about the sharp change in gradient near this bridge, and in easing the gradient the clearance was reduced.

The RTC on the 27/10/07 was not due to go to East Grinstead, it was the cancelled Past Time tour on the 8/9/07.From UK Steam "Not now to East Grinstead due to gauging issues".

Paul

 

Funnily enough we were talking about that on Saturday, with a volunteer who is also a mainline driver. Can't say we got a definitive answer though! There are also issues with weight limits on some viaducts (as well as the sharp gradient change referred to above). The spoil trains (with a 126 ton class 66 on them) are only allowed with a special dispensation, and I believe have a 5mph speed limit. So no definitive answer from me I'm afraid, though I suspect what does come in will be limited both in weight and external dimensions.

With regard the turning triangle: I am sure that the board have taken appropriate advice as to feasibility of incoming trains before agreeing to the plan. However, it is worth noting that there are operational advantages to the railway of having a turning facility quite separate from turning incoming steam engines: notably turning our own engines (to even up flange wear) and carriages (to even out weathering caused by sun / prevailing winds - it's quite noticeable how the west side of the LMS Stove R has faded badly but the east side is fine). That fact, coupled with the fact that the earthworks will be quite cheap on net cost on account of having thousands of tons of spoil that would otherwise have to be disposed of elsewhere, make the turning triangle a relatively cost effective option.

There is some brief information here: Bluebell Railway Preservation Society - Notices.

Tom

 

Also on the extension there was a certain amount of money that needed to be raised to pay for remaining trains by the end of December. Was this met or is it too early to say.

 

Thank you Tom and Paul for your clarification. The cancelled Past Time tour was to have used Tangmere, I seem to recall, so if a light pacific is out of gauge, then the options are a bit limited. It is hard to imagine the Bluebell or railtour operators not wanting to run a through train with steam if it is possible to do so, for even in the current economic climate it would surely be a sell-out (The first through train to Swanage with class 66's had to be re-run the following day, and the first steam-hauled train sold out too.)

If some way is found to run steam, I can imagine a scenario similar to the Mid Sussex/Arun Valley line - a few 5mph speed restrictions. Anyway, I shall follow developments on this front with interest, and will be looking forward to the completion of the extension. I remember visiting the West Hoathly station site in the 1970's when the extensions was little more than a pipe dream. it has taken a very long time, but it is great to think that the end is almost in sight.

 

Would it be feasible for the Bluebell to pay for the clearance issue to be resolved?
The NYMR, I believe, had to do this at Battersby when clearance at a bridge was reduced and threatened to prevent steam movement through to the NYMR.

 

Unlikely I'd say.

The bridge in question has a steep descent to pass under the Redhill to Tonbridge line, then an equally steep climb back out, such that the change of gradient is (or rather was) essentially a "V" shape with little transition from down to up. In more recent days, the "V" was smoothed out / filled in to provide a more gentle transition, but at the expense of headroom. So reinstating the headroom would mean one of (a) digging back out to reinstate the undesirable V-shaped transition; (b) substantially changing the gradients of the approach lines; or (c) raising the Redhill - Tonbridge line. Not sure any of those options is particularly feasible: in any case we've had enough of digging cr*p out!

There are some photographs of the area in question here (not my photos): Oxted to East Grinstead - Crowhurst Junction and Lingfield Intermediate signal box (both closed) - Derek Hayward's Photos | SmugMug

Then once you've done that bit of relaying, there is the issue of weight limit on the various viaducts to sort out! There's also a tunnel with limited clearance, though it is possible (so I am lead to believe) that passage through that might be possible provided any rolling stock has either window bars or is controlled such that a charter can only go through the tunnel when traffic on the other line is stopped, so trains don't pass in the tunnel.

I think as enthusiasts we'd all like to see incoming charters. But in reality, the Bluebell is never going to operate its own mainline stuff (unlike the NYMR); and our platform capacity (6 coaches long) mean that typical 12 - 13 coach excursions are going to tie us up in operational knots anyway. So whatever we enthusiasts might want to see, the real benefit to the railway of the extension is the ability of visitors in London and the north to get to the railway by train directly, rather than the current train + bus journey. It's only my opinion, but I am of the view that incoming steam charters are only ever going to be of marginal importance.

Tom

 

I wold agree with you, Tom. Sheffield Park isn't Minehead, Whitby or Swanage, although Sheffield Park Gardens is a pleasant destination, particularly in the Autumn. Nonetheless, I would expect to hear of a few charters, particularly in the early days of the extension being completed, when novelty value should ensure a sell-out, and justify what will probably be quite an operational headache for both Network Rail and the Bluebell.

The link to Derek Hayward's photos is quite fascinating. Whil the use of a telephoto lens exaggerates the change in gradient, it certainly makes the point well.

 

East Grinstead is only about 35 miles from London so since most Charters in the South have 3 to 6 coaches for Dining, depending on promoter.It would have to come from further afield, a minimum travel time of 3 hour each way.( A typical train Dining passengers have increased, and standard Class passenger have reduced in number since i started travelling on Charters in 2004)

Reaching East Grinstead will also enable the Railway to run Pullman, Fish and Chip, and Real Ale trains from this end of the line( Once they have overturned the restriction in the planning permission).

 

Not if it was done Tyseley style. You have to remember london is different to other places. if you told some Japanese tourists they can have some pictures of "old steam trains" during the summer weekend and its only half a day long so they can go on the London eye in the afternoon evening, then it would be a different matter. you dont have to market it as going to a location. As your coming from the location. with it being a shorter trip its more likely to be cheaper as you could fit a number of times per day. then an evening dining service. some people out there dont care what the loco is, where there going, just as long as they feel like they had a good experience. This is what London tourists are all about.

 

I don't understand. What restrictions, what planning permission?

Chris