Bluebell Railway General Discussion

I'm all for a Thumper and would be more than happy to have one. Indeed the 33 staying alongside it would make me a very happy bunny.

 

There was a long term fund for the saloon which had a fair few thousand in it. In the mid to late nineties it was dragged down to the Park and sat in the running shed. A Contractor was appointed to repanel it which they did. With low quality plywood. Badly. The spec of mastic to the rear of the panel was interpreted not as bedded on mastic around the edges but as Zorro stripe of mastic across the back. Why would you do that? The ply panels were not sealed at the back and the mouldings that were replaced were also poor quality ply. All of the work is totally unsuitable for use in a railway environment both in terms of durability and quality of finish. It wa a total shambles. No robust spec, no supervision of works. Just an emptied bank account.

Don't believe it? Go and find the saloon hiding in shame at HK in the corner of the shed with no suitable overcoat or a piggybank ready for tomorrow.

 

I believe the group owning E27000 (EM1 exWoodhead) proposed a battery based solution nigh on 20 years ago, but came to nought.. The cost being the big thing.. Lack of range being the other.. Even the Ballater Branch BEMU today can only manage half the distance it was built for... You could go for Lithium battery technology £00k and get a "weekends" worth of range.. If the money was there I'd suggest Bury's class 504 would be a good candidate.. 150 car batteries ?

 

There's a preserved Paris metro EMU that has a generator installed in the luggage compartment to provide power when away from third rail. It was at the Baie du Somme gala last year. If the EMU is only being used for preserved line speeds, I guess in theory a small generator would be able to provide enough power for 25mph running.

 

You some sort of masochist? They were an awful ride - talk about shake, rattle and roll.

 

You may be correct but it would probably require a winch or catapult to get it moving in the first place as on a level track overcoming inertia requires the most power. I could be wrong but I think that an MLV in preservation has been fitted with a small diesel generator to provide ancillary power and charge the traction batteries.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. You're right, I can't see the railway wanting to provide space for an old EMU that had no realistic prospect of restoration, even if it could be used as storage space in the interim.

Because of the historic extent of HK, the Bluebell is actually quite well endowed with siding space, at least in comparison with some other lines (Swanage comes to mind!) But there certainly isn't space just to keep collecting and collecting stock with no prospect of restoration, and the long-term objective is to move restoration candidates under cover, freeing up siding space.

Now, if the back sidings at HK were full of line upon line of Stroudley and Billinton locos waiting their turn in the works, that's another matter - and historically accurate too Perchance to dream...

Tom

 

The Eden Valley has fitted an MLV with a genset and extra batteries. It runs with a second MLV, also fitted with extra batteries, as motive power for the line's 4-CEP.

 

The above examples offer a solution of sorts - but at best I think that what you have got is a DEMU.

I did a little research after posting my thoughts about using ultra-capacitors yesterday. Unfortunately, although it can be recharged very quickly, the technology still has a long way to go before it can store enough electrical charge to power a 2BIL (say) non-stop over the 5km between Horsted Keynes and Ardingly. A range of 2Km seems to be the best currently available.

Cheers,

 

What 5-BEL - that unit does not exist anymore.

The BEL Coach bodies now have CIG frames. The motors, control gear, bogies, gangways and the ends with EP 27 way jumpers and all these are all came off of numerous ex CIG units. So following tradition, the unit when it appears should be a referred to as 5-PIG.

Brian

 

You're not a fan, I take it!

Seriously, I'm not sure what the problem is. It's widely recognised that many Victorian carriage bodies run on van underframes, and the likely outcome is that without the donor underframes, the bodies would not have any preservation future - and, for that matter, nor would the donor vans which would just be completely scrapped.

Isn't the issue with the 5-BEL recreation similar: without the donor CIGs, it wouldn't happen and the likely result would be that the carriage bodies would slowly rot away for want of money to restore them as steam-hauled stock, while at the same time the CIGs would have been scrapped anyway.

Tom

 

All the Southern EMU and DEMU motor bogies were 'lacking' in ride quality until the phase 2 CIGs and VEPS and gave a rather exciting experience be it literally bashing through Norwood Junc at 60 in a DEMU or hunting from stop to stop at 90 towards Tunbridge or Gatwick. I only had a couple of trips in the proper Brighton Belle 3rd class coaches but memory tells me they were even rougher and I can remember the squeaking noise of the wood panels as they worked against each other to this day. Ride quality is the only improvement the present day 377 EMUs have over CIGs and CEP EMUs.

Brian

 

A few pictures going around of the CIG underframes now attached to the bodies and at the open day noted the old gang ways had been removed and CIG design ones put on as well as it being Electrically a CIG unit to all intents and purposes.

Brian

 

I believe that was what led to the ultimate demise of the Brighton Belle: They were only rated up to 75mph (too rough above that speed) and it became increasingly difficult to path them in amongst 90mph services by other units.

Tom

 

Aren't all these theoretical ideas a bit complicated when (I believe) 2H, 3H, 3D and Hastings DEMUs* can multi with 1957 electric stock? No good for the BIL or COR, of course, but why not simply multi one of the aforementioned DEMUs (or one or two of Hastings Diesels spare power cars) with the blue(bell's) VEP? 500 or 600hp should be enough for pushing 6 or 7 carriages around at a leisurely 25mph top speed.
* Sorry, for me 'Thumper' has always been for da kidzzz, innit?

I beg to differ. CEPs in their original form were plenty comfortable enough, until Swindon butchered them and made them hideously uncomfortable (not helped by BR's bizarre decisions to install concrete slabs for seating), while in many years of travelling on VEP stock, I never found one which rode in a way that could be described as 'pleasant'.

 

Some of us are trying to say "it would be possible to..." not "you should do..." !

I must admit that whilst I have no great interest in electric stock (apart from a degree of fondness for old LU stuff) I have found the ideas of what is or is not possible and why interesting reading. It is, of course, Bluebell's decision what happens with the Ardingly branch and that is to be respected either way, though I am coming round to the logic that the branch probably represents the best chance of this ever happening. I cannot see an electric only line prospering in the way that being part of an existing line would allow it to.

 

I believe they are doing similar modifications to those carried out by VSOE with their own ex-BEL vehicles - sections of mk1 underframe are used to replace the equivalent parts of the 5BEL body where needed, allowing the use of buckeye couplings and standard mk1 EMU bogies; mk6 for the motor thirds and B5 for the trailers if I remember correctly.

The website is unfortunately a little light on detail but there have been more technical articles in some of the magazines and there are regular updates in the Pullman & CIWL News, the latest (April 2014) showing work now beginning on a third vehicle.

Chris

 

Indeed and as it has 5 P(ullman) coaches along with -IG motor coach MGs, compressors and drivers desks from -IG DTCs etc is why I called it a 5-PIG. Unfortunate name perhaps but it is what it is. Does not mean I will not appreciate it when it is finished or pay to travel in it, if I can afford a Mr and Mrs day out.

Getting back to Bluebell upmarket dining coaches - do people think if the LBSCR Directors Saloon had been fitted with a gangway at one end it would have been popular for dining in at the end of the GA? Would have been one way to get the coach restored perhaps. I was disappointed when the Semi Royal was ditched, as I much preferred having a meal in this coach to the Pullmans. In fact I have to own up to not having dined on the GA since the Royal was removed.

Brian