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Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Perhaps, but if you extend the literalism just a little, you get the argument for Ivatts on the which point a great deal else becomes reasonable.

    And as there are published pictures of Leader on Bluebell metals, I suspect it’s not a weight issue either.


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  2. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    Not sure we are getting away with it. It is the line's heritage as a single track secondary mainline/through route which it was prior to electrification to Alton in 1937. It remained busy at times with diversions and relief trains there after as well though.

    I assume you mean that at many heritage railways larger locomotives are operated than did pre-preservation, and I agree that is the case

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  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Bulleid Pacifics ran over the Bluebell in pre-preservation days.

    (There was also a daily working over the adjacent Cuckoo line that involved a Bulleid pacific working tender first on a two coach train - prototype for everything, eh!)

    In any case, I think in your desire to bring the conversation round to Mark 1s, you have ignored the original point being made, which was about the focus on four wheelers meaning pre-grouping bogie carriages had been put back in the overhaul queue. My own view is that if authenticity is what is being sought, the Birdcage set is of far greater importance than the four wheelers.

    Tom
     
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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for clarification. What went through my mind was the old "I only want to work on the coach I'm interested in rather than the one that the railway needs next" attitude...if it exists. With so many significant vehicles at The Bluebell I wouldn't have thought people could be allowed to become precious over what they do. If they have the skills and can help then please get on with it and don't question what has been deemed to be more important/urgent.

    Other railways like the MHR as mentioned, don't have such a tricky prioritising job although, of course, the skills are still needed.
     
  5. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    The S.E.C.R. bogie vehicles are certainly excellent to ride in. Let's wait and see how often the set actually gets used as opposed to the dreaded Mk.**.
     
  6. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    The Ivatts, tank and tender version are Class 2, not 6 or 7 and are not oversized for their function.
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    A "mixed rake of Bulleids and Mk1s hauled by a light pacific" might not be authentic on a branchline, but perhaps more authentic on a through line used for occasional diversions. And anyway "a hodge-podge of 4 wheel carriages from different railways strung together hauled by an SECR loco on a LBSCR line" would be even less authentic.
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Weight restrictions did occasionally get waived. Schools class Cranleigh was permitted to traverse part of the Horsham to Guildford line (admittedly a 'one off') to allow the naming ceremony to be conducted in the appropriate place.
     
  9. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    A format that makes a document on screen pretend to be a book or newspaper, with turning pages, is a PITA. Please no! But HTML may be worth consideration because of the possibility of automatically formatting differently for different hardware (or at least between "mobile" and "desktop").
     
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  10. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    "Simples" The carriages get painted in early S.R. livery with an appropriate locomotive similarly adorned. Less weight to lug around and more authentic.
     
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  11. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    The West Countries, in original form, worked many local services in Devon and Cornwall between mainline turns. There are loads of photos of 'em on short trains ..... sometimes even (and whisper it quietly) running tender first.
     
  12. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Quite. The overhaul/ rebuild of 949, the Stroudley brake 3rd, is now in its 16th year. Work on this carriage has never actually been stopped for any length of time.
    Is this a record?
     
  13. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    The theory appeals, though the reality is that certain vehicles, and I'm thinking more about locomotives here, have covenants which preclude this. A pity, esp. with the H class, which were seen as a classic Wealden branch locomotive from the 20s, right up to their demise.
    Personally, the H, or E4 plus Birdcage set and either a "swinger" or a milk van is the quintessential Sussex branch/ secondary line train.
     
  14. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree, they are entirely practical and a plausible might have been. But they are no less ahistorical than some of the things you are complaining about elsewhere.

    If you are going to argue about historical accuracy, that is fine. Likewise if you are going to debate the economy of operation. But please spare us the elision of both arguments when your preferred case studies demonstrate that the arguments don’t necessarily align, and that you’re actually just arguing that your ideal preserved railway is short, using small engines hauling pre Mk1 stock.

    St a Paul had something to say about specks in other’s eyes and the more in one’s own.


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  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Oh dear Paul! Perfectly authentic on the Bluebell and Swanage of course, very definitely a branchline, as well as the MHR. Also seen on many other branchlines in real days in the West Country. Hence the term "light pacific".

    Oh dear again! A quick perusal suggests only one of the Bluebell's operational four-wheelers actually survived more than a year or two into SR ownership, so not very authentic at all.
     
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  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    As far as I am aware, there is only one operational Stroudley carriage in the country (661, the 1st), and the Bluebell is the only railway restoring any others. I suspect the length of time taken over 949 shows why! My understanding is that typically the wood used has not stood up well to decades as houses, chicken sheds etc; and the shape of them (with many subtle curves) makes replacement a highly arduous and skilled task. By contrast, the LCDR carriages with lots of straight edges and built out of robust teak are a rather simpler proposition, hence the completion of three of them on the Bluebell in the time while 949 has been in the workshop.

    The "as recovered" pictures of 949 in comparison to the three Chatham carriages are instructive:

    https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/coach949.html (top photo)

    https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/106/recovery.html
    https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/51.html (Middle photo)
    https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/668.html (Bottom photos)

    The LCDR carriages were recovered in substantially sound structural condition. The LBSCR one has had a massive amount of replacement.

    Tom
     
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  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    LCDR coaches do seem to manage to survive better than Brighton, or Metro coaches, At the KESR, we had to replace virtually on whole side of the met coach, where as one of the Chatham's, needed only new sections spliced in, because they used a better quality of wood in the construction , i would love to see the Bluebell's and KESR SE&CR 4 wheelers, plus the family saloon ,together on the bluebell , running with the 01, ,or C , handing over the H, with an P piloting the H, As part of the anniversary celebrations, when it can happen,
     
  18. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    The Bulleid worked the early morning newspaper train to Eastbourne and before returning to Stewart's Lane, had a fill-in turn to Hailsham and back consisting of two coaches. With there being no turntable at Hailsham, the train would have to be tender first in one direction. I'm not aware of regular workings of Bulleids north of Hailsham, but they did work the odd special, with poor old 34073, currently in need of some serious TLC at Carnforth. being one of the locos recorded working the line.
     
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  19. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Member

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    One of these vehicles known to me acquired a thatched roof prior to forty years service as a summer house. On "rescue" it was found to be in remarkable condition, with much of the original furniture surviving and gets used from time to time as its railway's Royal Saloon!

    If timber of this quality were easily available, no-one would use anything else. However the harvesting of teak is strictly controlled and the price astonishing as a result. Mild steel and MDF anybody?
     
  20. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Member

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    34027 is also recorded over the Cuckoo Line working one of the services you mention.

    There are 2 pictures of the loco at Polegate in Taw Valley From Dream to Steam. The first is the loco hauling a 2 coach morning service between Eastbourne and Hailsham. The second is the loco working the return service shortly afterwards.
     

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