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Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Jamessquared, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Zoomeg

    Zoomeg New Member

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    May I ask what happened to the Bluebell public timetable over the last few years? No trains whatever in November, Santas only until Christmas (all full) then a full service for a week and footplate tasters only in Jan / Feb ( nothing shown for March yet)

    This certainly never used to be be the case. I joined the BRPS a couple of years ago so I could enjoy spontaneous trips on the line but if the railway only runs a public service for 8 months a year it's becoming a questionable outlay

    Bluebell is at its best over the Autumn / Winter. I understand if passenger numbers dictate the service but low numbers over this season has never been my personal experience
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Although I understand the reason why, but like you January was my favourite time, but not been able to do it for years.
     
  3. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    And likewise, mine too. But the seriously deteriorating permanent way of the original line is the principal reason for the over winter closures of recent years. Any chance to relay life-expired track is seized upon nowadays (a lot of the old worn out and crippled bullhead rail has been there since Edward Vll was on the throne!) and another quarter mile is slated for replacement very shortly. Hence the curtailing of the winter services.
    However, the end result will be a railway which is both more comfortable to ride on, and most importantly, much kinder to engines and rolling stock.
     
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  4. 45076

    45076 Member

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    Good that the railway can afford to replace worn out track. Many lines would love to be in that position.
     
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  5. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    No railway can afford NOT to replace worn out track in the long term. Permanent way is anything but permanent. Some lines have started replacing track which has already been replaced once in preservation. And not of course forgetting the drainage and culverts which also need maintenance or renewal. Any line with bridges needs to build up financial reserves to tackle bridge replacement eventually as well.
     
  6. Zoomeg

    Zoomeg New Member

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    Fair enough, I understand that. But it's not exactly a winter closure, they are still running trains throughout December over the whole line (although I think these days Santas run from each end to HK). And Bluebell is able to split the line so that the top or bottom halves can be used for public service while the other half has track etc repairs. I also accept this is not ideal with their locos all at one end.
     
  7. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    From the operational point of view, perhaps Tom might be better placed to comment on this.
     
  8. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    Whilst I've no idea of Bluebell's figures - is running trains at this time of year actually very profitable? Many railways are totally closed after the xmas season and having seen the few numbers of people who turn up on those that continue run the figures must be marginal (galas etc excepted). My view is its likely much better to use the time to catch up on maintainence than to keep a few enthusiasts and the odd member happy.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    Railways have to do maintenance. You cannot do major infasctructure work when the railway is running. Staff need time to catch up on Loco repairs/ carriage and wagon repairs/ S&T work. Our railways are getting more and more expensive to run. If its not making money, its not worth it.
     
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  10. Zoomeg

    Zoomeg New Member

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    but until a few years ago Bluebell was open 12 months a year (in contrast to many preserved lines). And it's not just enthusiasts and the odd member, we are talking well filled trains of the general "turn up on spec" public. I speak from over 40 years experience of visiting the line

    Once the track work is finished will these year round public trains return?

    I wasn't aware that the Bluebell only operated "profitable" services
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  11. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    Trackwork is never "finished" for ever. Possibly the 12months per year running of the past has contributed to a maintenance backlog.

    Heritage railways do not normally employ "rail replacement" bus services to enable lines to be closed over long periods. It is surely more economic to carry out such works during quiet times and rely on carrying passengers at busier times.

    "Closed" periods are never completely closed, the KESR for example has no normal advertised services during November but will have one or two days of special charter working, a Remembrance train and a "Christmas shopping" park and ride (between Rolvenden and Tenterden only) all fitted in between the engineers possessions, whereas major relays can better be accomplished during the Jan to March shutdown.
    In the early part of this month a full line track survey by measuring trolley was carried out at walking pace, some tamping has since been done as necessary and the tamped length re-measured afterwards, at least one culvert has been rebuilt and the track relaid over the rebuilt culvert. These jobs could not have been fitted in if trains ran all year round.

    Edit: I hadn't addressed your last line, no Heritage Railway can afford to run unprofitable trains!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Just because it was open all year round a few years ago doesn't mean it was sustainable. The very fact that it was in contrast to most other lines should show that it was nice whilst it lasted, but it really is the most sensible way of doing things like signalling and track work.
     
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  13. Zoomeg

    Zoomeg New Member

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    From the website page regarding membership

    The Bluebell Railway has grown from its start in 1960 through the strength of its members. As the railway expands so it needs even more members and volunteers to help it achieve its aims and objectives.

    The railway operates on about 3/4 of the days of the year, including every Saturday and Sunday throughout the year, and daily from April to October

    Thanks for the replies I'll take the matter up with the ENTOR
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Que?
     
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  15. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    I googled ENTOR and all I could find was an old French word meaning the people around. Same root as entourage.
     
  16. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin Member

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  17. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    You might be waiting a while for that.

    Basically until the recent relaying programmes started, the whole of the track between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keyenes was the same stuff that was there when BR used to run the line - and in view of the general sparse service a good bit of it was of 1930s or earlier.

    ALL the track therefore needs to be replaced - particularly as it has a tendency to break springs and cause excessive wear on loco / coach tyres ( Note much of the old stuff is so worn grinding it is not an option).

    The track was also set up with a cant appropriate for 40moh round curves - which means more wear when the Bluebell trains go round them at 20- 25mph

    Based on the fact that the Bluebell can only afford to do roughly 1/4 to 1/2 mile every year - that means something like 2/3rds of the track is still original and so if funding is available then autumn closures are likely to remain for the next 5 years at least
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Catching up on various points after a weekend away: I've been a volunteer for about 12 or 13 years, and in that time I can never remember running a public, turn-up-and-go service in December pre Christmas - it has always been pre-booked Santas, as far as I am aware. We do run in the week between Christmas and New Year, and will be doing so again this Christmas.

    November and January shutdowns are a more recent thing; when I started we ran pretty much every weekend, 52 weekends per year. However, that wasn't always the case: I happened to look at one of the mid 1980s railway posters, and it was advertising something like every weekend from March - October, and daily running only from June to August. That trend is visible in the mileage stats, which only really started to climb in the mid 1990s, before peaking round about 2004. Since then annual mileage has reduced, partly by running fewer days and also a more efficient timetable and diagramming.

    However, as others have said, infrastructure repairs have to be done, and it is inefficient to try to do them in short blocks between weekends. Last winter, the railway replaced something like 50 chains of track (5/8 mile) between Sheffield Park and Horsted Keynes over a period of a few weeks; doing it in five day bits while re-opening each weekend would have been more costly. The infrastructure team also completely rebuilt Poleay Bridge, just north of Sheffield Park, at the same time.

    We have in the past run half line services. However, given that much of the current work is on the SP - HK section, the half-line would be HK-EG, and out-stationing an engine at HK is really awkward - no coal supply, limited water supply; the only pit for preparation is the C&W maintenance pit, so servicing a loco every day disrupts C&W maintenance schedules. Given low passenger numbers, it is of dubious value. The Santa Service does run as a double-ended service (i.e. an EG-HK service and an SP-HK service) but the East Grinstead-based train still starts and finishes the day at Sheffield Park, running ECS at the beginning and end of the day: the train doesn't start from East Grinstead, or Horsted Keynes for that matter.

    My hunch about running trains in November / January is that on a cold, crisp day (as we had this weekend) they may well be busy. But you can't guarantee the weather, and if you get four dreary wet weekends and one lovely one, you might end up running four weekends at a loss, while those visiting on the one sunny weekend end up with a perception that "the railway was busy".

    Tom
     
  19. Zoomeg

    Zoomeg New Member

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    Couple of recent observations; yesterday I was walking around the woods near Kingscote when I thought I heard a diesel horn. Sure enough as I came up to the section near the vineyard D4106 appeared pushing a single Mk1 brake Southbound, is this a regular working during periods when no passenger trains run? It certainly brightened up a winter day.

    Also a couple of months ago I was waiting at the crossing north of Shapthorne tunnel for the first up service when I noticed two people on foot in the tunnel with torches. They seemed unfazed by the approaching Q class and as it neared the south portal moved out of the way having exited the tunnel. Is this a routine inspection?
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I suspect the brake was 21246, which has just been outshopped from overhaul and was under test. So not a regular move, but something that would happen as required.

    The p/way team do a full line inspection which would include the tunnel, so probably they were who you saw.

    Tom
     

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