Bluebell Motive Power

From memory (I'm away from references) Stepney had the highest mileage of any of the now-preserved Terriers on withdrawal from BR, somewhere over 1.5million miles. Fenchurch had the lowest - about 1.1million - but had done a lot of heavy shunting at Newhaven, "and we all know what that does to an engine", to quote Stepney.

Also probably worth remembering that when Stepney was sold by BR, they still had regular duties for Terriers at Hayling Island - so it is highly likely that on choosing a loco to sell, they didn't select their best surviving example ...

Having said all that, the old saw about "jack the whistle up - replace loco - lower whistle" is a common joke in Bluebell circles, but I wonder to what extent it is backed by a detailed survey, or at least a recent one? There are techniques now such as metal spraying that have become fairly routine, and would allow refurbishment of worn components rather than fabrication from new - which would be both cheaper and allow more preservation of the original fabric. I suspect when the view of Stepney being totally worn out arose a decade or more ago, such techniques didn't exist and therefore it was probably envisioned that an overhaul would require very substantial replacement of e.g. the motion parts. That may no longer be the case. The unknown I suspect is the condition of the frames, and the degree to which racking forces have elongated some of the rivet holes. As has been shown with No. 27, cutting new frame plates and building the frames up again is well within our capabilities. What proved unsuccessful on No. 27 was an initial attempt to repair the frames by welding in new material to replace corroded sections, since the composition of the original steel couldn't be matched and welding between dissimilar metals didn't provide a good join.

If it were me, I think I might be looking to see if the group currently rebuilding No. 27 would take on Stepney as their next project, with a target date for completion of running by 2035 - that being the Railway's 75th anniversary. (At the same time, target having 'Bluebell' completed in the main workshop for the same anniversary). That would give 13 years from now, by which time No. 72 and likely No. 27 would be going out of traffic.

Tom

 

Do you have RO water in all your water columns, or do you sometimes need to feed ordinary water? One of the unanswered questions at the moment is if we build an RO plant at Sheffield Park, what happens with locos that take water at East Grinstead or Horsted Keynes? That is rare for large locos, but fairly routine (at EG) for small locos; and (at HK) for any loco at galas etc that has been deputed to do brake van rides. So some locos - especially smaller tank engines with limited capacity - might end up having a mix of RO and ordinary water.

Tom

 

Kidderminster and Bridgnorth use RO, Bewdley and Highley are not. The latter most is very rarely used, while Bewdley is used sometimes.

 

So in an ideal world there would be a RO plant at East Grinstead as well. How viable is that? Is it something that takes up a large amount of space? Are there other limitations?

 

As Kje7812 says. Kidder and Bridgo have RO water but Bewdley, Highley and previously Eardington were not treated water.

If its small amounts of topping up. I think its less of a worry without treatment. We did use to have pellets that could be used if the plants fail for any reason.

 

I note your implied criticism.
Stepney did have a particularly hard life. Before we bought it!
As Tom points out and a Director used to say, 'You don't think they sold us one of thier good ones, do you?'
There was a feeling among some railwaymen at the time that steam railways were a flash in the pan. They thought we would have several years mucking about on a redundant 4 1/2 mile stub of a line until the first big repairs were needed, then we would all pack up and go home.
I spent a lot of time on the footplate etc with railwaymen from that era and various positions on steam era BR, if you're wondering how I know this.
As for the condition of 55, there is a lot of hyperventilating about this, see the whistle comments. Interestingly, I was part of the team that reassembled it for the 50th celebrations. It was a hoot as it happens, we just put it back together as quickly as we could with regard to safe operation. I think the boiler repair lasted longer than anticipated. I drove it on EG opening weekend.
There is a lot that needs doing but nothing that's a show stopper. Everything can be repaired. It needs new cylinders, that's a solved problem due to the foresight in making wooden patterns. If it needs new wheel centres, then a pattern exists for that as well. It will be fine. It will get done as and when.

As for RO, Tom again has summed up the main points about the use of it at the Bluebell. It's worth pointing out that water at Sheffield Park is very good, which was why it was retained as a watering place. Water in Sussex is mostly hard because of a large amount coming from the chalk aquifer. There are only three rivers of any size. The other issue as I've said before elsewhere is that Sussex around Horsted Keynes and going east to west has a lot of iron in the ground. Not good stuff to put in boilers. I'm guessing that the SVR water is very mineralised particularly with iron.
Anecdotally there is a stream in my back garden and the spring rises at the top of the hill in sandstone. The channel is a dark orange form the iron and sometimes there is a film on the water. It looks like oil, but it's from the minerals in it. I saw a similar hot spring in Dortmund.

 

Given the early sale of Brighton, from Brighton to Newport, of the loco later named Newport (couldn't resist!), I still find myself wondering about the run-down of so many other LBSC classes, once use of Brighton loco works for new locos re-commenced under OVSB and maintenance of several ex-LBSC classes became the responsibility of 'forgeign' workshops at Ashford and Eastleigh. The 'Terriers' late survival, courtesy of the Hayling and Tenterden branches, may have given the class a good ten year stay of execution, but I get the impression that last decade was more 'make do and mend' than during SR days.

 

I agree with this just about 100% However, ii would never surprise me if it didn't turn out to be much better than has been said All sorts of things get accepted as Gospel on supposition.

 

Exactly what I meant.

 

What sort of mileage has Stepney got in Preservation? Was pretty much in steam almost constantly from 1960 until the early 80's or so, did another 10 years from 1998-2008 and very light duties from 2010-2013/14.

 

51,780 miles for 'Stepney'.

'Bluebell' had done 88,529 up to withdrawal in 2019, fourth in the Bluebell list of mileages, but the highest in terms of years in traffic (43 years in traffic). 592, 75027 and B473 were ahead of it in mileage up to last time I compiled figures, though 80151 and 73082 will overtake in due course, and 847 will be up there by now as well.

Tom

 

847 must have reached 53,000-55,000 in its latest ticket. Sure it did something like 30,000 between 1992 and 1997. Still looks likely Camelot then 80151 will be the first Bluebell locos to reach 100,000 miles in preservation

 

Up to the end of 2020 (I haven't got the 2021 figures yet), 847 had done just shy of 51,000 on its current ticket, and just shy of 81,000 in total. I suspect it might have got to about 53,000 by time it was withdrawn.

'Camelot' was on a total of 89,962 up to the end of 2020. It won't have done a big figure this year because it only came back into traffic near the end, and the Santa / SteamLights turns are not huge daily mileages, even though it did quite a number of them. Depending where it is, I'd imagine it will certainly go past the C class in 2022, and possibly past 100,000 miles as well.

80151 is on 72,280 (up to the end of 2020 - it ran a lot this year) but with 'Camelot' having just had a full overhaul, my hunch is that it will be Camelot that stays "in the lead" when it gets there.

The H class will be over 40,000 miles on its current ticket by time it is withdrawn; I doubt there are many 115 year old locos working harder.

Tom

 

Presumably the SVR adds tannin (as an oxygen scavenger and to form a corrosion resistant coating on the boiler) and soda ash or caustic soda (to increase the pH), post RO?

 

JOOI, how do you calculate the mileage of an engine?

I can imagine it's compatively easy to say A-B = n miles, it's done t trips, mileage = nt. But for engines that do a lot of shunting/other footling about, there's got to be a lot of estimated mileage, surely?

Or have I missed a handy mileometer in the middle of the speedo...?

 

Whatever answer plops out of the ether, remember some railways counted the mileage of a boiler ..... no, nor do I!

 

Drivers write a ticket that includes the trips run and the time spent shunting - that is converted to a distance. I believe (but am open to correction) the conversion for shunting is 2mph - i.e. if a driver writes 30 minutes of shunting on their ticket, the loco will get credited with 1 mile on its mileage record. To put that in perspective, to go from the loco yard to the carriage shed via the platforms, draw out a set of stock to the end of the pump house siding, propel it into the platforms and then run round will take about 30 minutes; a mile feels about right for all that.

In the Bluebell mileage records I have access to, between 1960 and 1968 it appears the mileages were estimated, based on the timetable run in the year, and the individual loco mileages were just split evenly across all the locos in traffic in that particular year. From 1969 onwards, it appears that more precise records were kept.

Tom

 

I can't vouch for the truth of the following, but:
Swindon allowed 5mph for shunting. Result was that engines were going to Swindon for shopping when hardly worn. (Nice for the guys on piece work!)
Pat

 

Thanks. I suppose writing all those tickets up gave the army of clerks something to do...
Is it still done the same way, (albeit presumably you don't forward the returns to Eastleigh any more)?

 

In fact, the odd Bulleid Pacific has been shopped there in quite recent times!