Black 5 44901

The earlier thread is now locked, so perhaps time to bring this loco back into view.

There is a decent website at: http://www.black5-44901.com

Absolutely no criticism intended, but unfortunately the website doesn't mention that the loco is minus its boiler/firebox, and there is no news about the acquisition of an 8F replacement boiler from Turkey.

It has gone very quiet regarding this important missing component. Assuming of course that the original boiler has stayed with Rileys.

Does any kind soul have an update regarding a Turkish 8F boiler for 44901 please?

46118

 

Facebook page here, however both the website and the Facebook page haven't been updated since February this year and only sporadically before that. Any queries as to progress always seem to be met with the stock reply of 'we're working in the background'. I would've thought that after 'working in the background' for 3 years since the loco was acquired, that some progress could be reported! I understand that the loco group shares a number of 'main men' with the Turkish 8F group who are also restoring 4F 4027, and that it is unlikely that the loco will move to the GWSR.


Keith

 

Perhaps time once again to bring this topic to the front and ask again if anyone knows if the group are any nearer to obtaining an 8F boiler from Turkey.

No further updates on the website since February.

46118

 

It took years to get the intact 8Fs out, so will probably take just as long for a boiler!

 

If a group is daft enough to give their only boiler away before actually recieving a replacement it doesn't really lead to a great deal of confidence in their organisational abilities I'm afraid.

Another one destined for the parts bin...

 

Strangely, their website omits to mention the lack of a boiler, yet showcases the collecting of some small parts.....
Time will tell with this project I suppose.

46118

 

They could always try to buy the proper one back ......

 

Yes, can just see it now. "Uncle Ian, can we have that lovely spare boiler back you really, really wanted as a spare for your mainline fleet?"

Be more ho ho hoing than a conference of Santas!

 

Everything has a price ......

 

1st. Before saying they are daft enough to sell their boiler maybe ask them if thats what happened. Maybe you'll get a response of actually it wasnt them who sold the boiler. It was sold just before they aquired the loco and they would have prefered to still have it but they are where they are and they dont so option no2 is to get an 8F boiler and modify.

The boiler from Turkey cant be signed off untill the government is formed which i believe they still havent done from what the 44901 group said to me. Once that is done then the person who can sign it off can do so and the parts they are trying to aquire can come over. Untill that happens there really isnt anything else to say. They have assurances from the person over in Turkey that its a straight forward thing once the signature is signed. Untill then the loco will be moved from moveright internationals yard to the new Sharpness line at some point. No idea when but if anyone wants more info visit their facebook page (vale of Berkley railway i think) or visit the GCR (N) and ask them when the 8F is running or if you see the 44901 sales stand out and about.

 

What a very odd sequence of events that was, unilaterally disposing of the boiler. It would be fabulous if it could end up owned by the 44901 group and see it restored complete.

 

It's a bit of a shame it didn't end up 'complete' at Rileys- may well have been well on the road to returning by now!

I'm sure I read somewhere (the works possibly?) that he attempted to buy the whole thing unsuccessfully. I hope the owning group manage to acquire the Turkish parts to 'recomplete' 44901.

Chris

 

It would certainly be preferable for the boiler to be with the other remains if it is to have a working future. Biased it may be but the outcome for both Stanier locos from the Barry 10 is deeply regrettable IMHO.

 

Isn't the 8F boiler 1 ft shorter than a Black 5. I think the original intention was to make them interchangeable but there was some reason why this couldn't be done.

 

Don't know the exact dimensional differences but the essence is correct. The 8f transplant boiler is to be modified to fit and appear superficially correct is it not?
At least it's now understood the owners of 44901 are doing it of necessity rather than choice according to the earlier post. Although heavily stripped the remains have been reported as being very sound in terms of boiler, tyre and frame conditions so with will and means all the bits might have a purposeful future.

 

The firebox dimensions for the 8F and Black 5, are almost the same, save for three sixteenth of an inch in length, and one eighth of an inch in height at the throatplate end of the firebox. The boiler barrel is one foot shorter on the 8F, but from looking at a basic diagram of both, the taper section looks about the same on both, but with a longer final parallel ring on the Black 5. The barrel diameters are almost identical, at the firebox end just five sixteenths difference, and at the smokebox end just one quarter of an inch. So if it is just a case of adding a one foot parallel ring to the front of the boiler barrel, or a new longer parallel section, that should be relatively straightforeward. I guess any remaining minor difference in appearance will be lost in the boiler cladding.
Despite my earlier scepticism, I wish them well with their project.

46118

 

Indeed. Interesting to know the history of why the decision was made and by who. Rolling new barrel sections seems fairly routine these days. Camelot at the Bluebell recieved one at its last overhaul

 

All the Series 3 (3A = 5XP; 3B = Black Five; 3C = 8F; 3D = 2-6-0) boilers were designed by Eric Langridge in 1933 to use the same flanging blocks for the firebox and the same tapered section of the barrel. Complications came in later: the use of a sloping instead of vertical throatplate firebox and the thinning of of plates by using high tensile steel, accounting for at least some the fractional dimension changes, to reduce weight. Major changes in length were accommodated in the front, parallel ring, which was and still is easier and cheaper to form.

From the above, it will be seen that there were no less than seven major variants of this class of boiler: the 3A, 3B and 3C boilers all came in both vertical and sloping throatplate forms. Additionally these boilers might or might not have a dome, the position of the top feed varied on 3B boilers, and the 3A and 3B boilers had three different tube layouts and number of superheater flues / elements. All 3C boilers had 21 elements. Additionally, the 3B boiler used 1 7/8" small tubes, the 3C's were 1 3/4".

 

Barnshaws in the west midlands have done the tapered barrel for 82045 for a very good price.

 

Just to add to the above.