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Bagnall 4-4-0 Sir George Newnes (WB2891 formerly Charles Wytock)

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Felix Holt, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I have driven several large 7 1/2"g. live steam locos in the U.S. where propane firing is much more commonplace than over here and owned a gas fired B&A 4-6-6T for a while. I never saw one with a hole in the bottom of the smokebox and, with a properly set up burner system, there should be no need for it IMO. The main difference in driving a propane fired loco is to leave the blower open much more than with a coal fired loco and to open up/knock back the burner according to steam demand. It is important to have a separate, reliable pilot burner. On a coal fired loco most of the heat transfer takes place in the firebox whereas on a propane fired one most heat transfer takes place in the tubes and smokebox temps are much higher as a result. In order to lengthen the flame path and effect more heat transfer in the firebox a stainless "arch" is employed and to slow down the passage of flue gases some model engineers insert "turbulators" into the firetubes. Usually these are simple strips of stainless with a slow spiral. On models of this size I haven't found any difference in the steaming rates of coal v. gas fired locos but I can well see that to get the same on full-size the consumption of propane would be horrendous. I can only think of 2 full size locos that have been propane fired. One (a 3'g. 2-6-2 now in Como) has been reconverted to wood/coal burning and the other (a s.g. 4-4-0) is disused at a Tuscon film studio after it went on fire!
    Whilst Bagnall marine type fireboxes have to be fired differently and ash pan space is limited by design I cannot see that there would any gain in converting Charles Wytock to propane. Just my 2p worth.
    Ray.
     
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  2. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

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    I seem to recall that one of the 2ft gauge Bundaberg Fowler 0-6-2's operating at a tourist operation in Australia (Ballyhooley?) was (or possibly still is) converted to gas firing, presumably whilst retaining its traditional boiler/firebox arrangement.
    As my 16mm scale model of the same loco is also gas fired I do remember thinking this fell firmly in the "prototype for everything" category!
    You would need a dirty great big can of gas to fill the prototype though.......

    Chris
     
  3. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Heard from my volunteering mate on the L&B that the engine is been dismantled and, the boiler/firebox has been taken to Highbridge to be used as a pattern for the new one to be made but as he is not been on the net so unable to send me his photos to use, the only photo I know of this happening is partly way down here. https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/story/work-progress-21st-november-0
     
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  4. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Had a chat with my L&B mate on the phone yesterday and, he said the design for the new boiler/firebox has been agreed with the insurance firm so now need to track down the correct steel for it and, then get this rolled and also for the smoke box and once this has been done the building work will start on it. Also one set of the driving wheels have been turned and the second set will be done this week.
     
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe that several of the later-build Disneyland locos were propane fired.
     
  6. MartinBall

    MartinBall Guest

    L&B members may not have seen the update on this loco in the members' section of the L&B enthusiasts' site (https://www.lynton-rail.org.uk/)
    You will have to be a Trust member to log in to this site and the current update is embargoed for the time being. However, it is good news on progress with the loco and completion may not be too far away. If you wish to become a part-owner then shares are available for L&B Trust members, L&BR CIC share holders, L&B staff, and L&B volunteers. For details of how to buy shares in the loco see the story in the members' section.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2020
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  7. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Chatted to the one I know who in involved in the rebuild this evening, and he said the new boiler/firebox is finished and in the near future he and another person will check it out, and if all is alright it will be taken back to Woody Bay station. The chassis is progressing well with the driving wheels refitted and, the bogie wheels having a new master made for the brass axleboxes and when they are cast and machined the wheels will be put back on and a rolling chassis will be complete.
     
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  8. MartinBall

    MartinBall Guest

    I think I'm correct that CW will be renamed shortly as Sir George Newnes, but maybe someone 'in the know' could confirm that?
     
  9. Axe +1

    Axe +1 New Member

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    Sir George Newnes it is, when the engine re-enters service. I have also heard it said that the locomotive could be ready to enter service later this year. But from my experience, knowing how things can drag on and on, it may be better to suggest perhaps sometime next year.

    Why a change of name?

    To those of you who are not aware, Sir George Newnes built a large home called Hollerday House in Lynton. It was destroyed by fire in 1913. He played a major part in the development of the twin towns of Lynton and Lynmouth, he built the innovative cliff railway — the Lynton & Lynmouth Cliff Railway — to join the two towns, and also provided the town hall and other amenities. Importantly, it was largely as a result of Sir George's efforts, that the 19-mile Lynton & Barnstaple Railway opened in 1898 ostensibly to bring visitors from the mainline railways at Barnstaple.
     
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  10. sitimela43

    sitimela43 New Member

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    Partly correct. The boiler is as stated and expected soon. The driving wheels haven't been refitted , although the main (re-metalled) axleboxes are in place in order to measure up for wedges. The axleboxes for the bogie are cast and in the process of machining (currently 50% complete.). Give Mr Carter 5/10 for accuracy!
    The loco is going to carry the name of 'Sir George Newnes', details as stated by Axe+1. Nameplates are being costed up at this time. The loco is likely to enter service next year.
     
  11. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    I hope they repaint it from that rather washed out green to something nice and bright! Midland red, maybe?
     
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  12. sitimela43

    sitimela43 New Member

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  13. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    But all the others are green! Couldn't it be some other colour if only for a while!!
     
  14. mgp

    mgp New Member

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    What colour would you like to see Martin? White perhaps...
     
  15. sitimela43

    sitimela43 New Member

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    The owners don't want any other colour, and at the end of the day, it's their decision. I did suggest a livery similar to the original Tongaat colour.
     

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  16. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I'm not a big fan of renaming locos from their original names, but I guess it's the owners perogative.
    Will the chimney have a top fitted? The stovepipe always looked a bit odd to me!
     
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  17. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Personally I have no with locos being renamed, it can always revert back to the original name someday, it's not set in stone. I only take issue with renaming a loco if there's not really a strong enough argument for doing so, principally what's the historical and/or emotive reason for a change in identity?

    Case in point the 9F based at the GCR for example. The names it's had have little relevance historically for area, and little value to them seeing how often they kept changing it every other day. Just seems to cheapen the prestige and significance in having a locomotive carry a name.

    Renaming 'Charles Wytock' into 'Sir George Newnes' though I'd argue does hold merit, for the person behind the name actually holds a strong connection of importance to the railway itself. It actually works as a kind of educational tool as well I'd say, for few probably knew of this man's existence and his historical significance to the local area as a whole, myself included! A well deserved name to have highlighted I'd say.

    Ultimately as said before though, it is up to the owners as to what if any name is carried. At least the owners of this engine are not only treating it well but also giving it an overall pretty fitting name to carry while based on the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway.

    Makes me wonder if there's any other key figures in the L&B's history that people feel are noteworthy enough for a loco to carry their name as well.

    As for the question of livery, I'd love to see it carry the original L&B's holly green, as I've yet to see that livery in the flesh on a full sized loco. Only drawings.

    Oh I sure hope they do something with that chimney too, the chimney it originally had just looked ugly, didn't help the loco's overall looks at all!
     
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  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember Charles Wytock carried another name at some point (and Wytock is supposedly spelt wrong anyway).

    I second the 'holly green' vote, not that it matters. Would be nice to see one of the L&B locos in the pre-grouping livery
     
  19. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

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    Captain Woolf would be a great name for an engine! Would have to be Navy Blue of course...
     
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  20. DcB

    DcB Member

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    It will be a few years (5?) till Yeo and Exe are finished so Axe and "Sir George" will cover for them, Green will be appropriate.
    When Yeo and Exe go in service then Axe could return to WW1 grey and perhaps "Sir George" brown? (edit it does seem it was green when it first arrived in the UK in 1994 without a cab from https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Charles_Wytock )
    Of it's "brothers" "In March 2020 A. Boulle was advertised for sale. Sinembe remains in store." can't see any other updates
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021

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