All aboard the Lynton & Barnstaple

Please keep to topic and avoid insults, either to each other or to people mentioned in threads who may not even be on the forum.

Note there are three threads on the L&B:

http://railways.national-preservati...s-Acquisition-of-More-of-the-Old-L-amp-B-Line
http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php/30928-L-amp-B-and-the-ENPA
http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php/31036-All-aboard-the-Lynton-amp-Barnstaple

it is proposed these two are closed and just this thread remain.

 

As I have posted before when the subject of closing threads or merging them was asked, ( about 3 weeks ago) as originator of the Exmoor Associates News thread I would like the EA thread left so that NEWS can be posted up Please.

EA is not doing what the L&B are doing its separate whilst the wider aims of a longer L&B are the objective, neither group reports on the other accurately elsewhere, this thread helps to distribute happenings to a wide reader base who are interested and have posted to that effect.

EA appreciate that opportunity to spread the word thank you National Preservation.

Regards Andy Richards posting as "TheEngineer".

 

Andy,

I was not aware that you were the official spokesperson for EA

 

This sounds like sarcasm - on the same day that the moderator said keep to the topic and avoid insults. Very disappointing.

 

Exmoor Associates say -

 

"EA appreciate that opportunity to spread the word thank you National Preservation."

That statement gives a clear impression that the Engineer is speaking on behalf of EA. It is hardly surprising that I sounded astonished.

 

EA do not ( as a company as is posted two posts back) own to comming on forum.

I post up information as does AXE, that we think is of interest to readers, some read it and say" thank you" others read it and "well who knows" try to twirl it around.The official L&B magazine fails to represent EA clearly.

I have posted quite a lot of my views on all different threads, not necessarilly the EA more of the old line , this thread here you are posting on is not about EA or has that escaped you.

Is there a view I have posted as NEWS on the EA thread that is technically inaccurate ?? Misleading ?? I don't think so.

I was quite a mover when it came to building and opening the L&B that you see now probably why I got the member of the year award?? and Honnary Life Membership . I worked closely with those who are now the Directors of EA.I still work with them. A LOT!! we are continually working on new challenges.

I have a fairly accurate and sound idea of what EA are doing. EA have an open book policy, they dont hide things away in the members section, they like people to know what is going on.

I post it up for them INDIPENDANT.

John what have you actually contributed ?? your just trying to find fault.

I don't need to justify my writing to you sorry.

I post on here as an engineer, its my view, the products I have been involved with are out in the field doing their job well. Lots of people see them, Gertrude, The coach bogies, building the coach bodies that are now in use, the wellwagon, the rail layer, , Van 23, the track and fixings at WB, setting up manufacturiuing and the workshops at Bratton Fleming actually doing it not just talking about doing it.

Now I am working on plans and work at "Snapper" and "Raleigh Weir" potential designs for river bridges ( not that anyone has asked for any YET, but I would like to build and install some bridges with the team, be good fun!!).

I am a free agent I can work where I like and where I am requested to and it seems there are a few people who like to see me.

And some people who don't like to see me.

Because when they see me they automatically assume something is going on or being planned and organised, and yes there is a fair chance they are right.

I inspire the people who like to see me and I join in with them to get on and do it !!

That usually means I have facilitated a lot of gear and materials before hand, arive on site with all the kit and a plan.I also talk to people by phone and email to distribute and organise the plan beforehand.

Thank you all TheEngineer

 

I've followed this with interest, as though I'm not in a position to financially contribute at the moment, I hope to be able to do so soon. As someone who's not involved with either group, and who only wants to see the best possible operation of the L&B in future, I humbly offer the following thoughts:

- I was a bit surprised with the leaflet "All Aboard"; it asks for my hard earned, encourages me to sign up to one of three levels of support (including Gold at £170/month!) without explaining

(a) how much is needed
(b) what it will be spent on
(c) what it is intended to produce on the ground
(d) what I get in return (other than the token, which is a nice idea) - recall, that the WHR scheme gave clear benefits, including 1st class travel for life for Gold - does the L&B intend to do this? (And if so, say so!)

- Any resulting railway needs to be sustainable, but this to me means that it needs to cover its running costs. No one expects to recover the capital expenditure for the reconstruction.

- "ellenbe pioneer" makes a strong case for ignoring the southern end. I've no idea whether the southern section is viable or not, but Blackmoor - Lynton sounds like a solid starting point.

- There is no one pot of cash for the L&B; so assuming that it's a zero-sum game between L&B and EA is probably wrong. It seems to me that both serve a purpose, and if you closed EA down, I see no expectation that all of the funds that would otherwise go to EA would go to Woody Bay or vice versa. What matters is that both can work together when the time comes, and that in the meanwhile that they don't get in each other's way - which it sounds like they have in their North/South operating areas.

Even at the best of times, it seems unlikely to appeal for cash without a detailed pitch on how it will be spent. This is doubly so when the economy is in its current state. It feels distinctly amateurish, I'm afraid. Some best practice from WHR on "how they did it" could be in order. And the contrast to the EA website is noticeable. Again, I'm not a member of either organisation, so I'm not taking sides or advocating either approach - merely that for organisations soliciting support, EA is much more credible as it seems to have a clear plan.

All of which is said with the very best personal wishes to L&B - I hope to be able to support the reconstruction soon. Perchance it waketh!

 

Andy

"John what have you actually contributed ?? your just trying to find fault. "

If you are still as tight with members of the Trust as you say, you can no doubt find out what I do for yourself.

My problem with your posts is that you seem incapable of writing anything about the railway without 'turning the knife'. Many people work hard at the L&B and many more contribute in other ways and it is infuriating to read that according to you, everybody is incapable, misguided and wrong.

There are moves to reconcile issues between EA and the Trust and your INDIPENDENT posts are only destructive. Your posts often give the strong impression that you represent the EA which I know very well YOU DO NOT.

Likewise, fund raising is taking place to move forward with the project and you only do damage with your posts. You continually repeat the same points over and over again and manage to incorporate them into almost any subject.

It is because of this, I say that those who have strong starts and destructive endings should not be involved in long term projects.

You mention Gertude yet again. Perhaps you would care to explain why this locomotive does not run on the L&B so that all Trust members can read about it.

 

My apologies all, but I really had to comment on the above post. A model of succinct subject appreciation. Now I will bid you guys adieu once more!

 

I think 'Tobbes' has 'hit the nail on the head' and made some very valid points regarding the leaflet. However I see a little more information regarding the appeal has appeared on the L&B website.

The TWAO is highly unlikely to cost the £25k figure mentioned earlier in this thread - given the magnitude of the project I imagine there will be a number of objectors and thus a public inquiry funded by the L&B. A seven figure sum is more likely.

As for the point raised regarding 'Gertrude': she does not run at the L&B because the current management at Woody Bay stated they do not require another steam locomotive there.

Charlie

 

Dear All Thank you for the content of your posting Tobbes

I don't intend to answer you Lynton & barnstaple (john), I fail to see the value in your dialogue so you have had as much as your going to get END.

I have said what I want to say to all those who have read it and so have several others in a very sensible and learned manner, remembering that some of them have been with the project a long time.

I asked back in 2006 and again in 2007 "OK your going to turn the railway into a success story" tell me how your going to do it then?. Show me with results, 5 years and counting, how many more years do you need.

I am still waiting to see the plan let alone the product start.

For John and others to read if you wish not going to write it all a second time or fill this thread with it .

"You mention Gertude yet again. Perhaps you would care to explain why this locomotive does not run on the L&B so that all Trust members can read about it". Well Please refer below.

For the benifit of John, who indicates above that some trust members might like to read about why Gertrude is not on the L&B, there is a thread about it.

Gertrude is owned on lease by Exmoor Transport and is currently on the WHHR, visit their site for more details, she has not had any running repairs since entering service, and is appreciated very much where she currently is please make the effort to read the thread.I would have liked her to have been on the L&B but they did not want her, too small not powerfull enough oh really!!.

The thread is locked,( so I could not call it forward for you all) it is entitled "Gertude", you can find it on page 11 of this Narrow gauge group.

The whole thread is interesting to read, but my posting which your looking for about " why and why not" is post no19 date 06/04/2010 12.25am. It fairly well explains where we got to and why.

Try here http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php/16893-Gertrude

If anyone has any questions after reading, please send me a private memo. I will be happy to answer.There are some interesting views by others too, and some heated views hence it was locked, I am happy with the state the thread is in and it is an appropriate record in my oppinion.

Regards TheEngineer

 

Further to Charobin's post

Pretty much from the horses mouth, £1.2 million comes to mind possibly increasing to £1.5/£1.7 million by completion depending on complexity during the process.unless of course John knows more accurately.

 

Then £25K is a gross underestimate in my experience. It cost far more than that over 10 years ago to extend a shorter distance on a recently closed line where no public enquiry was necessary.

Unless of course you have special rates agreed with the agents and your legal representatives which you should be making public to encorage confidence and pay them back.

 

I believe it was at the recent L&B AGM where it was mentioned that the start cost is £25k for the TWO. Should any of the affected landowners object to having part of their real estate rescheduled to become a transport corridor and should a landowner decide to force a public enquiry on the matter, that‘s when costs start escalating sharply as the railway has to pay for solicitors, barristers and other additional costs.

Chris

 

The L&B Extension Public Planning Consultation documents are now posted on the L&B website. The documents appear to be extremely well put together and they make for a very interesting, indeed exciting, read.

Phase One Planning - Public Consulation Exhibition Documents | Lynton_&_ Barnstaple_Railway

I do hope there are no serious objections to the plans.

 

*That* is a very well prepared document.

Foxy

 

It's brilliant! Has got me excited. Money is still the problem though...

 

Please note, this link has changed slightly, it is now at:
http://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/Stage_One_Public_Planning_Consultation_Documents