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Advanced steam tech for narrow gauge locos

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by lynbarn, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    Hi Guys

    I have been thinking about this as a separate thread for a while, not because I want to but I think the new build thread is getting a bit confusing.

    While we will all have our own idea of what locomotives we would love to see, I would like to use this thread as a place that can bring together and explore some of the mechanical myths about certain locos.

    As an example I would love to see a new Baldwin WW1 2-6-2T, but one of the problems it had was it was to high in its center of gravity and thus made it possible to tip over on the rough track.

    Also at first it could not go round the 30 m curves they where design for, but a fix with the pony trucks made this possible.

    So I am on a quest if you like to find out more about the Alco 2-6-2T which was built for the British WD light railway system, as opposed to the Baldwin 2-6-2T which was built for use by the American Army in France.

    So there you go, lets start with this also I should explain that I will try and explain any of the so called new tech systems I have come across or I will also put a link to other web pages that have more details, please feel free to add your own links if you know of any as we can all still learn about what is out there.

    Thanks

    Colin
     
  2. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Surely the Baldwin's were 4-6-0Ts?
     
  3. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Well-Known Member

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    Not the ones built for the United States Army Transport systems (as apposed to the British systems) - two/three ? went to the Penrhyn - two of these went down under and one of these two is I believe now in France as below:-

    http://marc-andre-dubout.org/cf/baguenaude/felin-hen/felin-hen-english.htm

    Not sure how you could class any of these locos as 'advanced' though there are better starting points than these loco's I feel.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  4. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    You are quite right about this, may be I should have pointed out the weak points of that design a bit more, but a good starting point is the construction of the frames themselves, the original LYN had a a form of swing link frame which allowed it to bend into curves and thus make it easy to go round corners, today's equivalent would be the tilting trains on the west coast main line.

    As this is the core of the locomotive it will pay to look at all the options which are available today in frame construction.

    There is much to be said about having a set of water cut frames rather than plate frames for a new design.
     
  5. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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  6. 48DL

    48DL New Member

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    I think the reason they tipped over was due to either no or incredibly small balance pipe along with the rough track, I have had a look of a builders photo on line and I can not see a balance pipe, but a later picture shows a very small balance pipe then a picture of one of the Ashover Baldwins shows a big balance pipe at the front of the tanks
     
  7. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    I am currently reading Phil Girdlestone book 'Here be Dragons' and some of the story's about Mountaineer are very interesting, they have over time done a lot to that loco so I think you can count out any idea of returning it to as build condition, I haven't got to bit about if it needs a second new boiler yet but all the same an interesting read (oh and I don't have any connection to anyone who wrote or produced the book except as a happy customer).

    That by the way is an interesting observation Ian, I have just look in Narrow gauge to no man's land and it look's like the American army locos had much bigger balance pipes fitted from new.
     
  8. ragl

    ragl Member

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    Phil Girdlestone was building an advanced 2'-0" gauge loco during the early part of the century, does anyone know what happened to it?

    Class LSN.jpg

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
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  9. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    Yes it was shipped to the UK a couple of years ago, it is now at the Exmoor Steam Center and it is not for sale or for viewing at present (I know as I have tried).

    I am trying to obtain more information about what has so far been build and what remains to be build, I understand that the design for the Boiler and the tender need to be completed but at present nothing is happening to it.

    I am keeping one eye on the project just in case it becomes available, since I think it would be a good thing to finish and it would make a great addition to any loco fleet.

    You don't happen to have any more photos of it do you Alan?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  10. ragl

    ragl Member

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    Thanks very much for the clarification Colin, delighted to see that it still exists and is now in the U.K. As for photos, sorry, that is the only one that I have; but from what is showing of the loco, it does look to incorporate many advanced features. I do hope that it finally gets completed and perhaps steamed on a, er,"local" railway.

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
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  11. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    I am trying to find out how tail it is and if it would fit a local railway.
     
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  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    Scaling it off the chap in front (assuming he's c.6') the loco is about 9'6" to the chimney top.
    Ray.
     
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  13. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    When Shaun McMahon gets back from his day job, I hope to be able to ask him a few question about this loco, from what I know already I suspect that we could find the answers to the boiler issues in David Wardles book the Red Devil etc etc...

    I need to go and try to re read parts of Davids Book (I failed last time) to get the jist of the boiler design and its concept of what they are trying to do. I might also take a look at my Leader steam loco book as I think that would be closer to what is required.

    As for building a new tender that too should not be a problem I would guess that it will need to carry up to say 1000 gallons of water and 3 tons of coal so I guess we could be looking at around 8 tons overall for a new tender.
     
  14. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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  15. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    Fascinating! Phil's loco looks like quite a beast
     
  16. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    When I first heard about this loco, I was trying to get my head around the fact that very little was know about it. I am even now, not to sure to all its history, what I have been told is that it was going to be paid for by four gents, sadly two of them have since died and those remaining did not have the money to finish it off, somehow and exactly when I do not know, but it ended up at the Exmoor Steam Railway in North Devon.

    I get the impression that it is to be the first of a generation of advanced steam engines, and it needs to be finished. At the moment there is very little I can do about it, but most of the contacts are now in place and hopefully something will happen in the next few months.

    What with this and James Evans loco project, I don't think that steam engineering is dead just yet.
     
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  17. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Do I get the impression some consider a home on a certain railway not a million miles from the part built Girdlestone loco's current location may provide impetus for it's completion?

    This sounds a fascinating project which I would love to know more about.
     
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  18. lynbarn

    lynbarn New Member

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    Oh that would be the dream, but there is a lot more to do behind the scenes before that can happen, There are a few people who are aware of this loco and the hints I have dropped about it, for what it is worth I think it would be a good fit for down there, the whole ethos of the project is the same as that of the railways.

    The big challenge is to get all the members on side since they view the project of rebuilding the old railway back to something like it was in 1935, I have no problem with that, but I am however prepared to accept things have changed and we need to be more sustainable in our outlook when it come to the whole project and if technology can help make that happen then so be it, history has a great way of teaching us when we get something wrong.
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    One design feature rarely mentioned is the 'Chapelon Economiser' (I'll stick with an 's' - thank you very much!) which I understand to be a vertical seperation of the foremost (i.e.coolest) part of a conventional boiler, effectively acting as an integrated pre-heater between feedwater and full boiler temperature.

    Description here:
    https://www.advanced-steam.org/ufaqs/the-economizer/

    Whilst sounding a lot simpler than many contraptions trialled over the years (but not the Franco-Crosti version!), does anyone have any experience of the pros and cons?
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    A special camouflaged boiler to blend in with the surroundings for a start...

    Tom
     
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