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80078

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Steve1015, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

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    Being a supporter of SLL I must agree with sidmouth and David 1984 and get swanmail to wake up and smell the coffee.No one likes to see a favorite locomotive leave its home but any owner of any loco can do what they want when they want if their is no contract in place. Be greateful that their are people like SLL who have restored some right junk pieces to pristine condition and not left to rot for 20 odd years like the Blubell and the Severn valley railway have and still do.The money is there now to help get their flagship back to where it belongs and to replace Eddystone when its ticket has expired.You look at what swanage has done for the overhaul of its own? locos? Surely instead of getting to wareham a proper engineering w/shop would be better.Oh by the way why does'nt the swanmail put a bid in for 92203, then he could decide when it runs who drives it etc etc. Oh sorry cant do that wont fit on the turntable.I rest my case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    80078 has returned to it's original home county, Essex. It's at a secure, private restoration facility, an overhaul will start early in 2013 and it is hoped that this will be completed within 18 months/2 years. The loco will then be run-in on a local line with which it's new owner is associated, after which it will be made available for hire to other railways, so it is quite possible that it will return to Swanage eventually. It certainly looks like a win-win situation to me, much better than sitting in a siding deteriorating for who knows how long!
     
  3. swanrail

    swanrail Guest


    Wow what a mature post, you must feel really proud of yourself.
    What the hell are you on about with regards 92203? What point are you making apart form a complete misunderstanding of my knowledge of the subject.
    I will not sit by and watch my railway be damaged miscommunication and people thinking that Swanage people aren't bothered and that SLL did the best for everyone, they didn't.
    I have received many emails from SR volunteers and even SLL shareholders since this thread started in support of my communications, I'm well aware of my subject and would not commenting if I didn't.


    The point is, I was grateful to SLL for many years. But in recent years I have got a handle on what and who they really are and I'm not going to sit here and say how wonderful they are.

    Their business model, is simply unsustainable. If the Swanage Railway didn't provide a roof over their heads the company would fold.
    They are a contractor to the railway yet, demand unworkable options for the railway.

    The railway tried and tried again again to get some sort of deal sorted, it wanted 78 back in traffic but SLL wouldn't get real on an overhaul package. They wanted to sell because, quite fairly their priority is Bulleids.

    It simply was never an option, but it is the only one SLL could offer because if they didn't, they would be without income and therefore fold.
    Fair enough so they need to safeguard themselves and the only option is to sell assets.

    If you go through SLL newsletters through the years, time and time again SLL say how important the standard are to Swanage and they wouldn't leave. A particularly interesting newsletter appeared in August 1993, if you care to research it, you will find it rather insightful. This was not the last time SLL confirmed their position on the standards. Therefore it's quite a surprise that the membership of SLL were not even consulted on the sale of 78, if it had done, Swanage Railway would have been able to vote against.

    The problem is Swanage wasn't even offered the chance to bid and that is unacceptable, it's also now history and I hope this relationship becomes seriously less cosy in future.

    Again these are my opinions aimed squarely at SLL management, not the organisation or its shareholders. Therefore think on before personally attacking me.
     
  4. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    About 2 years ago there were rumours that SLL would need to sell at least one engine to finance the next restoration, at the time SLL rubbished it, but it looks to have been true, then i thought that Norman might be sold, rather than 80078 , but i guess that a std 4 Tank is more marketable but it does raise questions of what 80104 or Norman's future when the money runs out again
     
  5. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    They will be sold
     
  6. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

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    we have a fortune teller in our midst. Good luck to 80078 where ever it goes.
     
  7. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    Haha, yeah I can tell you are mature.

    This is the problem with this forum, you tell people truth, informed facts or solid opinions and you get that. You wonder why people in the know give up on this forum because all you do is get shot down. Why bother
     
  8. kieranhardy

    kieranhardy Well-Known Member

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    Funny that... i could have sworn you called 'collet1930' a moron in your last long post but it has since been edited out... i wouldn't say that is mature either?
     
  9. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

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    Thank you Mr Kieranhardy. I thought this was a forum for personal opinions.
     
  10. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    No need for personal insults, won't have a thread to discuss anything if it gets locked.
     
  11. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    I edited it out because I realised that sinking to some of the low levels on this forum is actually not my style. At least I got rid of it and didn't continue with the personal insults.

    I have also categoraly stated that these are my personal opinions, so do with them as you will.

    Now what do you want a forum for? Do you as members want to hear how and why things happen, the actual feeling behind the stories you all start or in fact are you more happy to just make up random threads based entirely on rumour with no fact or basis behind your opinions. Or would you rather hear from people in the know who want to give others a more informed view? If you have no desire for the facts then fair enough, its your loss because you will never really truly appreciate what goes on.

    I like to hear informed opinions or facts, I don't like waffle and BS, but if that what you prefer so be it.
     
  12. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    No disrespect Swanrail, but how do we know your opinion is fact and everyone with differing views is wrong ?, how do we know it isn't the other way round ?, how do we know what your saying is born out of fact and not assumption that is somewhat wide of the mark ?.

    Im not calling anyone a liar, but it's rather easy to post on a forum and just type away, so you can't really dismiss an entire forum for having doubts and asking questions in the absence of any real facts from online aliases, the only real facts to hand thus far are SLL have sold 80078 to a private individual to be restored in Essex and Swanage would be in a much poorer position without SLL, I honestly can't remember if 80104 is in traffic or not (haven't ventured to Dorset for some time), but if SLL decided to remove it's toys when various contracts are up, then Swanage would have a task on to replace them, 80104, 34028, 34070, 34072, I assume short of bringing anything else in, that leaves Swanage with 30053 and 6695 ?.

    Whether your right or wrong Swanrail, SLL hold a lot of cards through owning at least 4 Loco's Swanage currently needs or will in future, without motive power, trains are going nowhere, it's a shame Swanage seemingly were not offered the chance to buy 80078, but as far as I can see, SLL were under no obligation to offer it.
     
  13. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    Thats the problem isn't it, you hit the nail on the head, you understand that SLL holds the railway with its motive power, you have come to this conclusion, it doesn't seem fair does it? Its historical. SLL hold too much power in this and the balance of power needs to be restored.

    You are right, with SLL gone SR has 53 and 95, but would it be a task to replace them? Maybe yes, maybe no, these are questions we don't know the answers too. Maybe this episode is what is needed to draw the organisations apart to a more professional standing.
    Maybe the reason people haven't flocked to Swanage with locomotives is because of the, at times, (in my view) incestuous relationship between the two parties. They have been far too close for far too long.Sure its nice to have the WC/BB but what the railway really needs is Class 2s to 4s and apart from the 4 tanks this has never been an option.

    You are right you don't know my background and I don't expect you to take my opinion, as gospel, but I would at least think that you may assume that I maybe quite well informed?
    Im not out here to upset people, I here because I have had enough of this imbalance of power.
     
  14. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The thing is, unless the Railway can get enough capital to buy a decent amount of locomotives outright, your always going to have to deal with locomotive groups of some form or another, are SLL really any worse than any other group ?, I doubt there's a railway out there that hasn't had a disagreement with groups that have loco's there, while SLL are pretty loyal to Swanage as things stand, SLL have to look after SLL first and foremost.
     
  15. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    Well the agreement is pretty good for SLL. Im not saying anyone else is better but they are onto a good thing with us as much as we used to be.
     
  16. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps the problem is that SLL have 5 engines that aren't of great use to the Swanage and, formerly, two that are?
     
  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed, many locos have moved homes for one reason or another so the situation regarding 80078 is far from uncommon. Since it is far from certain that it won't be returning following its overhaul, I'd advise the pro Swanage people posting on here to say nothing that may convince the new owner that they're best out of it and not bring the loco back.
     
  18. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Being beholden to one group is a dangerous situation to be in, the Mid Hants realised this although the way they dealt with it was draconian. If the Swanage isn't in a position to acquire one or two more suitable engines outright and reduce their reliance on SLL I'd be surprised - I'd have thought that they're one of the more succesful lines - lots of passengers, shortish and relatively easy run. If they can't make money under those circumstances, what does it take. An opportunity may come up in a couple of years time to start the process if the Bunch collection comes up for sale or loan and I'd have thought 31806 and 73096 would look very good there.
     
  19. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    No ones doubting a Standard Tank is more useful than a Bulleid, but the latter is SLL's bread and butter (as you'd expect with Southern in the name) but a Bulleids better than nothing, SLL needed money, would a Bulleid have got the money considering there are already a number on the market ?.
     
  20. dhic001

    dhic001 Member

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