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80078

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Steve1015, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. 007

    007 Member

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    well your point about where else can you see two Bullieds is right, it is the only place, but only for now I suspect. Its not really authentic for the line in my view, an Ivatt, Standard 4 and M7 are just about perfect, I would much rather of seen how it used to work with 78 and 104.

    Apart from yourself Nick, no one from Swanage Railway have officially appeared to comment, will there come a time when one of their management comes on here and explain their position? Until that point, what you say may be perfectly true but would SR management agree?
    SLL seem to of taken quite a battering with this issue, on line at least, but apart from this, I wonder how the SR really see it. They have not appeared to have risen to the bait.
    Also who's to say the SRT couldn't of bid? Or was it offered to the company?

    In my line of work our contractors often have different ideas to what I actually want! Its the bane of my life.

    Your right of course but if your locos have only earned half of what it cost to overhaul them, is the business model actually sustainable? Or has SLL maybe got too big on the back of a seemingly quite good deal with SR? I don't know.

    Have SR actually officially said they want 72? and Im talking in writing because if I was involved in the SR I couldn't see the point with 34070 running. I like the idea of an unconverted and a rebuilt but not two of the same.
    I also see 53 as the flagship locomotive. Its pretty much my fav loco in pres!
     
  2. nickt

    nickt New Member

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    Thanks for your comments. To be clear, I am an ordinary member of SRT but take no part in their management. I am active within SLL. I understand that Swanage Railway look forward to the return of 34072, but first we must complete the overhaul.

    Again, loco restoration only works when there is a steady flow of new funds into the "business". Income from loco operations will never recover the cost of restoration, and rarely cover the cost of overhauls. The same facts of life apply whether a loco is owned by a railway, an individual or a group. SLL is in a relatively good position in having 5 of its 7 locos in service (can anyone name a group with a similar record?) but after spending £773,000 to restore Sir Keith Park we needed to sell 80078 in order to kick-start the restoration of 257 Squadron, Eddystone and 80104 in the next few years. However to keep those locos running we will still need to raise more funds, hence our 257 Squadron Appeal, 34072 Overhaul Appeal .
     
  3. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    This is the Spring 2011 text of a letter to Swanage Railway Trust members from it's then Chairman.

    The Swanage Railway (SR) wishes to make members and staff aware that it is in discussion with
    Southern Locomotives Limited (SLL) with regard to the basis of the future operation of Class 4
    tank locomotives 80078 and 80104 on the railway. SLL has made the SR and its shareholders
    aware that it wishes to devote its resources to the overhaul and restoration of its Bulleid Pacific
    fleet and 257 Squadron in particular as opposed to 80078. The Swanage Railway Company has
    made SLL aware that for economic reasons it requires an affordable mixed fleet of locomotives,
    including Class 4 tanks. The Swanage Railway Trust is keen that the locomotives remain available
    to the Railway as it believes this is what Trust members and supporters want and expect given
    that they have now been associated with the Swanage Railway for considerably longer than they
    were owned and operated by British Railways. SLL too are keen to find a mutually acceptable way
    forward, given their long association with the Swanage Railway and the on-going opportunity to
    see their Bulleid Pacifics operating in Purbeck.
    We do not propose to comment further on the discussions held to date, nor speculate on the
    likely outcome. However, we will advise further as and when appropriate.

    As 78 is now sold to fund 257 Squadron, clearly the requests from SR fell on deaf ears!

     
  4. Steve1015

    Steve1015 Member

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    If you were a loco owner and had the chance to have a long hire term for your loco at say 150 steaming a year, looked after at a place where the quality of maintenance is reported as being rather good....it would be very tempting to turn down. Dont forget also that when a loco is in steam, under normal circumstances, it is kept in steam till its next washout.
     
  5. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Reading this thread I can understand why the new owner may want peace and quiet to get on with it, however it does sound like this locomotive is heading towards its true historical home. Many people on here are bemoaning why Swanage should have locos appropriate to it's history, maybe they should take solace in that this loco is doing the same...

    When was the last time a std 4 2-6-4T ran in Essex ?
     
  6. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    I would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not bare any Ill feeling what so ever to the new owner and wish them well and the best of luck in the restoration of 78. I'm sure they would be warmly welcomed by all at Swanage.

    I hope they understand that it is primarily the recent attitude of SSL towards Swanage and the perceived injustice of the situation that has caused this to spill on to this forum and nothing whatsoever to do with them.

    I'm equally sure that all other Swanage supporters posting on this thread will feel the same.
     
  7. kieranhardy

    kieranhardy Member

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    80098 came to Clacton in 2000 on a very rare one off occasion (only time we've had mainline steam on this branch since steam days) but i don't know if said locomotive came to Essex after that such as Southend maybe?
     
  8. twr12

    twr12 Member

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    80078 visited Essex in 2008

    Swanage Railway News Gallery Page 426
     
  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The LT&S steam events saw two run to Shoeburyness. 80079 and 80098 in May 1999.
     
  10. maitland

    maitland New Member

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    What about NELPG 3 out of 4 locos in working order 2005,3395 & 69023 , all unique locos as well. Not more of the same type of loco, nothing against Bulleid Pacifics you understand. regards John
     
  11. oliversbest

    oliversbest New Member

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    Now is the time for the SR to do some very hard bargaining with SLL. They have had a very good deal
    for a long time and no reason that it cannot continue but as the SR edges towards a reconnection at
    Wareham I am sure most SRT members are looking to stability and continuity in motive power,economies
    in operation and some good national publicity(Bluebell Style) on expansion and progress. That being said
    the provision of undercover carriage facilities has to rate near the top(looking at those under construction on the IOW)
     
  12. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    Its common knowledge among Trust members that 78 was offered to the railway at £600,000. A figure that was considered at the time to be unreasonable and way above its actual market value.

    So if what nickt says is correct SLL are to be congratulated on reviving such a princely sum for 78.
    Baring in mind the Loco still requires a Full overhaul.

    As ever these are just my personal opinions.
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    As I understand it there is no obligation for a charity to make its minutes public although it can chose to make them so. (I stand to be corrected of course.) So are the minutes actually in the public domain as a result of the SRT deciding to make them so or have you just decided to publish this extract anyway?
     
  14. twr12

    twr12 Member

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    The publishing of those minutes certainly brings backup to Pugwash's point about the original offer price to SRT. However, I doubt Pugwash will be able to find out how much the loco actually sold for!
     
  15. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    You are probably right Spamcan81. The minutes are not marked as confidential but after due consideration I'll take the extract down and replace it with something a little less sensational.

    Heard any rumors you would care to share?
     
  16. 73129

    73129 Member

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    I hear SR were compelled to sell the loco at the time to SLL cover an outstanding tax bill. A shame they didn't get a bank loan to cover the outstanding tax bill. Then they wouldn't be in this mess now.
     
  17. Scoobs

    Scoobs New Member

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    A month or so ago, with its latest newsletter, the Swanage Railway included an appeal for donations towards some essential infastructure repairs that need to be carried out this winter and for which £250,000 needs to be raised. I therefore imagine that the railway is not currently in a position where it could realistically bid to purchase a locomotive - but I do think there would be something to be said for the idea of the SRT establishing a "steam locomotive purchase fund", so that in the medium term, it might be able to acquire a suitable loco of its own to operate alongside those that it hires. Regarding Southern Locomotives Ltd, of which I am a shareholder, I am pleased to hear SLL explicitly mentioning its remaining Standard 4MT, 80104, in its future overhaul plans. 80104 is currently in-ticket until 2016.
     
  18. twr12

    twr12 Member

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    I know the sale price, but have been asked not to tell anyone.


    (Uh Oh, cardinal sin of going on a forum and posting "I know something you don't, nah nah nah nah")
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    None concerning this thread that's for sure.
     
  20. Pugwash

    Pugwash New Member

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    Does anyone know if 72 will be based at Swanage when its overhaul is complete?
     

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