If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

7802 at WSR

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gladiator 5076, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,142
    Likes Received:
    6,037
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As with all preserved railways, things can, and do go wrong, first point, at least no member of the public, or WSR crew appears to have been hurt by the debris , As to what happened and how, that's for the experts and owners of the engine to decide, I would imagine the cost of repairs will have to be met by the WSR via their insurance ,
    A lot of the steam engines in use are now getting on for 80 years old, some more, some possibly less, the manors I believe date from 1948 and are still using original castings , or parts that were fitted on its very last BR overhaul, so possibly 60 years old , whilst bores can be sleeved, over time metal can fracture and crack, heat, cooling cycles, rotary forces etc, all can give rise to problems, some of which are not visible to the human eye, and only become visible when using ultra violet , or doing crack detection with magnetic particles.
     
  2. std tank

    std tank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    483
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Mods, we appear to have two threads here, 7802 and WSR ops. Can the 7802 thread be moved to Steam, please.
     
    mdewell likes this.
  3. Anne C-B

    Anne C-B Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    293
    Location:
    UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I would expect standing orders to be do not disturb it without authority from the person in charge.
     
  4. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,486
    Likes Received:
    6,279
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Clarification noted, with thanks - I agree completely that individuals' names should be kept out of the public eye.
     
    Paul Kibbey and jnc like this.
  5. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,206
    Likes Received:
    932
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Actually 7802 was built in 1938. 7820-9 were built under B.R. in 1950.
    Ray.
     
    Forestpines likes this.
  6. jnc

    jnc Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    845
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And the apparently-broken-off section inside the crosshead, being protected, will be exactly as it was at the failure, making that determination feasible; the other side of the presumed crack may have been further damaged by/in its travels after exiting the cylinder. (Note the damage to the piping on the rear face of the front buffer, likely caused by the departing piston and/or cover.)

    Noel
     
    Aberdare likes this.
  7. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Stratford-upon-Avon or in a brake KD to BH
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If, and its a big if, the cylinder is not repairable the suppport industry to the heritage lines can cast and machine a replacement cylinder. 50 years ago such an issue would probably have beenn unrecoverable. Let us celebrate what can now be achieved in the preservation world
     
    acorb, PHILL, MikeParkin65 and 14 others like this.
  8. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Andy, thanks for carrying out such a clinical examination of the picture, bringing your many years of
    experience and professionalism to the issue.

    Hopefully this will preempt any conspiracy theorists.

    As you say dissapointing for the passengers, particularly distressing for the loco owners and I
    suspect something the footplate crew will not forget in a hurry.

    As an aside such events were of course not as uncommon as one might imagine both under the
    'Big Four' and subsequently BR regimes. I remember a similar incident with a Bulleid Pacific;
    even from some distance back in the set the noise remains vivid over fifty years later.

    Michael Rowe
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    16,132
    Likes Received:
    23,198
    Location:
    21C102
    Indeed, though the law of sod always says that such incidents occur when you can least afford to deal with them. Probably as much a concern as the cost of repair is the ability to cover the service in the interim with one fewer loco than planned: the juggling of locos between planned repairs, annual boiler inspections and washouts to ensure there are always sufficient available for the service is one of the unseen little bits of genius by shed staff rarely perceived from outside. But if you are already running tight, an unplanned failure has bigger consequences, unfortunately.

    Tom
     
    green five, joe_issitt and jnc like this.
  10. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    7,316
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Chartered Certified Accountant
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Am I alone in thinking a couple of things about the very unfortunate failure of 7802:
    1. There may well be some greater knowledge behind the detective work about the cause than examining the picture posted here! All I could see on maximum zoom was shadow where the piston rod had broken!
    2. But mainly, assuming that detective work is correct, this could be quite a serious incident for the whole movement. At the very least, will all Manors/GWR locos with similar cross-head/piston rod arrangements need to be checked? Given what has been said about the failure appearing to be within the crosshead, this would mean dismantling and I am guessing some form of ultrasonic testing. Will such testing be deemed necessary for a wider range of locos where hidden cracks could be a risk? Will insurers and/or ORR introduce a requirement for periodic ultrasonic testing of motion parts, especially those in the drive 'chain'?
    Steven
     
    Paul Kibbey, oddsocks, jnc and 2 others like this.
  11. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    4,239
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    MPIU or even dye penetrant would be all that was needed. I suspect that many railways will do this as routine at the time of overhaul. If not, it is not a huge job to split the crosshead and piston rod and carry it out. A job for doing at the next washout, perhaps?
     
  12. Avonside1563

    Avonside1563 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    234
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bolton's Sidings, just behind the running shed!
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Perhaps you have never tried to split the piston rod from the crosshead of an inside cylinder loco? Getting the cotter out is the easy part, getting a big enough hammer and having room to swing it from underneath to drive the button wedge up is another things entirely! We spent the best part of a day at Foxfield getting one piston rod to let go in one of our Austerity tanks. Not a job to do as part of a washout! :Nailbiting:
     
  13. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    6,083
    Likes Received:
    2,793
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    .. and I come back to a question that has been raised before - have the parts that have failed been made to the correct metal specification ? I know metal components are normally accompanied by certification but in the past these have found to be questionable hence my concern that the owners of 7802 are simply the latest victims of faulty components / certification.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    4,239
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    On too many occasions. Hydraulics are easier than a BBH.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  15. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Deep South
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As Bradley Manor is not a WSR locomotive it just happened to be there at present, maybe the posts concerning the loco would be better within the Steam Traction thread?
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  16. phil hancock

    phil hancock New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It would certainly be interesting to see pictures of the other bits that went walkabout as well as sharp close up pics of the rod fracture. Was it an ex BR rod or a new SVR? replacement, its not impossible for the fracture to have started from a flaw within the steel.
     
    2995valliant and jnc like this.
  17. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,283
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    see here is the theory . All the bad vibes this thread generates and anti WSR sentiment got into the rod and caused whatever problem may or may not have occured . Good to see the armchair experts all hypothesising and trying to apportion blame where it may not exist . Facebook groups I have had the need to remove posts and posters .
     
  18. KHARDS

    KHARDS New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    22
    Occupation:
    Train Planner
    Location:
    Errr......in front of a computer?
    Pictures have surfaced elsewhere suggesting that Bradley Manor has suffered serious damage to its drivers-side cylinder.

    Not wishing to stir trouble or make any assumptions - purely passing on the sad news. I would like to pass on my best wishes to the EMF in getting this sorted.
     
  19. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    13,528
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I know that I speak for the ‘traffic’ folk on the WSR in expressing our sympathy for the Erlestoke Manor folk and to say how personally disappointed we are that Bradley will not be with us this summer as planned.

    B56D9902-68D1-4824-A958-2158009859E7.jpeg
     
    malcolm imps, jnc, green five and 3 others like this.
  20. std tank

    std tank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    483
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Maybe it would help if all the 7802 posts were moved to a thread in Steam traction, as previously requested by myself and at least one other member.
     
    MellishR likes this.

Share This Page