Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by paralaxerror, Jan 12, 2013.
I heard 71000 has a damage left cylinder, requires renewal, anyone else heard this rumour?
Seems pretty definite, posted on The Works by IR. Seems like a LH cylinder AND cambox.
Sounds like a black day for one of my favourite main line performers. Let's hope that it's salvageable - metal stitching etc. If the worst comes to the worst, that's the same side that had to be replaced during the restoration IIRC, so maybe the patterns exist?
Weren't both outside cylinders replaced in the original restoration? One original was used for display purposes & the other removed for "balancing purposes".
Very sad news about 71000. Perhaps there will be an appeal launched to get a new one made?
I wonder why, Simon, as Deputy CME of the 71000 Trust you are posting in this fashion a piece of information very damaging to your reputation as one responsible for 71000's wellbeing. If true, it could also be very damaging to the locomotive's future plans that are being formulated right now - have you informed your CME and the Trust Board?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Just what the loco doesn't need. :nono: Plenty of pics of Mr Holyroyd making a positive contribution on the Trust's website not long back 71000 Duke of Gloucester
We are getting very spritual @Kylchap! I sort of see where @Reading General's coming from but I also look at it like this 71000 was always considered a bad machine when in service with BR, yet the group that's looking after it has righted the various wrongs it had from new and turned out a machine that is most definitely not the same 71000 in BR service, has 71000 lost any of its soul? I don't think so. I'm slightly biased in my view that a loco in steam tells a far greater story than a loco that's cold and lifeless. We have a wonderful opportunity here to have a lovely piece of Victorian engineering being able to tell an interesting story. Let's strip it down and have a look and see what's what.
would you consider 71000s new cylinders part of her or are her old ones in the NRM her real ones? I know what I think.
But isn’t 71000 a bit of an exception, as a prototype that was taken and developed?
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Yes I would consider 71000's new bits part of him. Just because they weren't made by BR dosn't mean they're not important in telling part of the story.
just some disjointed jottings re previous posts
I knew 71000 cylinder and valve gear were displayed in the Science Museum , and a mirror image created . have the other 1/2 been replReading General suggests that is the case.
she is still to my mind a work in progress , and I would love to see further development to enhance her performance .
I would say the same of some other types . the Jubilee(s) for instance which never really fulfilled their potential although at times they were very good.
I don't see a prob with renewing large chunks of a loco . this would have been done in the works as a normal procedure . the caveat of course is historical importance where something should be left alone . I don't believe 563 is in this category .
most (all) older locos will have little left of the original anyway . 4073 for instance - probably only the wheelsets are from the original loco. 4073 is similar to 46235. they both represent the last BR overhaul , and have not been changed from that . 4073 DID get a full works overhaul , contrary to instructions , and could be steamed tomorrow . I hope she never is . I was very fortunate to see her at old oak , just before her move to Kensington . absolutely stunning ! while her exterior finish is close to 1923 condition , mechanically it is a different story .
there are of course 3 , not 2 Duchesses . I would be more than happy to see 6233 used to discover the ultimate possibilities for this design, including conversion to oil firing , and fitted with a Kylchap . or summat else that would improve on the original.
60007 has a lot of 60026 bits.
the E prefix on southern locos was carried from 1923-28.
I saw on one of the links I followed (American steam loco efficiency) that a preserved Scot 46115 ?? had been steamed to 2350 idhp . does anyone have any detail on this ?
why is 4003 still in WW1 garb? is it not time the brasswork was replaced ?. yep I know the steampipes are wrong but who cares ?
as I understand it, the second cylinder was removed from 71000 to balance it for transport to the scrapyard.
possibly --- but it was not lost . it was used to create a mirror image to replace the one that was sectioned , and then refitted to the loco . so the nearside is new , and the other 2 , originals .
your post implied there were more than one new .
it was a job that it said to be impossible . fortunately that proved not to be the case
not what it says on wiki "One of the very few compromises made was replacing the previous steel cylinders with spheroidal graphite iron. "
the |Duke's own website says ". Initially the only institution to offer meaningful financial assistance was the Science Museum which, perhaps for obvious reasons, donated the large sum of £6,000 towards the cost of new cylinders and valve gear and Crewe Borough Council (as it then was) also made a financial donation"
I think you may have misinterpreted Crewe works using one cylinder as a guinea pig to plan the final sectioning of the other.
On one DoG website it says:
"The complete left - hand cylinder was sent to the Science Museum, Kensington, where it remained, exhibited in sectioned form, until being put in store in 1998. The right - hand cylinder had been cut up and the rest of the engine, which retained just the third (centre cylinder), was stripped." (http://dukeofgloucester.co.uk/?section=locomotive&page=A+Concise+History)
and on the other
"The right hand cylinder was removed at Crewe Works and used as a “guinea pig” for the final sectioning of the left hand cylinder which was later exhibited at the Science Museum, South Kensington, London. This sectioned cylinder together with its valve gear currently resides at the Heritage Centre, Crewe. Shorn of its outside cylinders and other fittings the remainder of the locomotive was then sold for scrap." (https://www.theduke.uk.com/the-duke/history/)
Which rather suggests that both of the outside cylinders had to be replaced.
so how was the N/S cylinder and valve gear recreated?
I have always believed it was a matter of record the O/S was used to create the mirror image ,together with reference to the sectioned assembly .
until now I did not believe there was any disagreement on this , but if that is the case , the sectioned assembly must have been used as the model . - not impossible , of course
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