Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.
I would love to be a fly on the wall at conversations in senior levels of GWS management...
Breathing new life into Thornbury Castle? Bullsh1t! New life was being breathed into it already - as a Castle not some cut and shut faux 4700. As for the prospect of a Star rising from the ashes of 7027’s remains and a butchered 2800 ……………….. to misquote John McEnroe, “they cannot be serious”.
If one interprets that as "the frames were taken apart and they and the components repainted" the impression given is of a project in its very early stages rather than one that is well advanced and perhaps that should soften the blow!
Indeed, I suspect there have been some quite heated communications over the last 4 days between them and the 47xx group, I genuinely get the impression/fear they didn't know what was going on.
I must confess my first thought was 'smothering with a pillow' would be more apt...
Does that argument not apply a fortiori to funding a Castle, which we already have several of?
I’m struggling to keep up here. So they never bought Thornbury with the intention of butchering it to make 4709. They bought it to butcher it to make a Star, but only for a short time, then reinstate it as a Castle. As a coincidence, they would have a spare Castle boiler, so why not make use of this to help out the 4709 group.
Who writes their PR?
The ship may have cast off from the dock, but it hadn't sailed very far and, crucially, the private source of funding for the voyage has apparently disappeared.
I very much doubt that it is, but up until now did anyone ever even go as far as asking the question?
That's a bit unfair. They can barely scrape together enough money for the frames of a 47xx, not even a whole loco. Other than frames, cylinders, a rotten tender and a few other bits, what have they got?
Facebook post: Its some way down in https://www.facebook.com/groups/6230720903/permalink/10158174116040904/
Chris Moore Not a decision made by GWS. I am the CEO and was only informed a few days ago. They are an autonomous group. We have no authority or wish to have authority over private individuals who pursue their interests."
I am rather intrigued as to where the money came from. In the last accounts I looked at there weren't megabucks in the 4709 fund, and the wording of the press release from the 4709 group isn't incompatible with the Castle having been bought by an individual or consortium of individuals.
The Great Central Railway is, stating the obvious, the only double track former main line in the heritage world. It has big engines and the fleet - working or otherwise - is a brilliant cross section of the four former regions plus post war Standards.
The idea of restoring Thornbury to operate on the line made sense three years ago. It still makes sense but it needs money and if.... I say if..... what is going on currently will accelerate the creation of something special and GWR then so much the better.
But that only happens with big money or a millionaire sponsor. I see neither at present just the sad prospect of another long term 'project'.
But if 7027 is owned by the 4709 group, then it becomes a GWS asset at least somewhere within the GWS company structure. The 4709 team can't be wholly autonomous and part of GWS.
It would be very interesting to read any financial governance framework for the GWS. As someone who works in the audit of public sector organisations and charities, the idea of an organisation (specifically the Board) with the level of income/funds that the GWS possesses not being made aware of or authorising such level of expenditure is frankly scary! How do the Trustees of the Society ensure that funds being used meet the intended purpose of the donation, as such their legal responsibility is?
EDIT: Of course, above statement assumes that the GWS have bought the loco rather than private individuals doing so and then donating it to the GWS.
The 4709 group had the frame plates cut and machined in 2012, the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust had the frame plates rolled for the P2 in April 2014 and by the July they had been delivered to the works at Darlington, erected on stands withe the Cartazzi frames bent and more. They are producing a new locomotive without resorting to the cannibalisation of others in their charge. Maybe the GWR is not quite so attractive as some of its supporters like to imagine.
An awful lot of rework before even a rolling chassis emerges..........................
Yes, but the guy and his family who were paying to breath new life into Thornbury Castle have decided they no longer want to pay for this!
The loco was put up for sale and the only buyer to come forward appears to be the 4709 group, It would seem that despite all this froth on here that there is not much interest in people putting their money where their mouth is and putting probably in excess of a million pounds into sorting out Thornbury Castle? The GCR did not seem interested in buying it did they?
Mr Blobby? Mr Bean?
That interpretation assumes that the sale was advertised and known. There’s plenty to suggest that this was an unadvertised sale, at which point we can’t know what might or might not have happened.
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The Banker's Order and Gift Aid Certificate I have here in my hand has at the page footer : The 47xx Project, Great Western Society Limited, Didcot Railway Centre, Didcot, Oxon - Registered Charity No : 272616
Return address mirrors that for 1014 County Appeal, both to Richard Croucher, Didcot.
You mean the only group who seemingly knew it was for sale. Groups won't make offers if they don't know its for sale.
Separate names with a comma.