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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Considering that in the last few years the GWS have had a King and Castle and decided in both cases that they don't want to go mainline I can see nothing that is going to change their mind with a 47xx.

    The 8F pootles up and down the S&C (And is something of a depot pet), whilst the Panniers are a niche and run in carefully identified locations. As someone not infected with the 47xx mania (not saying you are BTW) noted from Didcot, the only time a 47 would get a path out of Paddington would be about 2am on a Sunday morning.
     
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  2. igloo

    igloo New Member

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    I am curious what you expect DRC to do.

    Amongst the steam locos there, according to the website, are these 20: 1338 1340 1363 1466 2409 2999 3650 3738 3822 4079 4144 5051 5227 5322 5900 6023 6106 6998 7202 7808. (I've left out a couple, as well as anything that I think isn't suitable for operating DRC's trains, the in-progress new builds, and more unique things like the SRM and the broad gauge locos.)

    Currently available for operating (and in fact, all due to be in steam this weekend!) are 5 of the above: 1340, 2409, 4144, 2999, 4079. That's 2 small locos, 1 medium, and 2 large, which I would suggest is ample for DRC's operational needs. That would, for example, allow for 2 locos to be available for use on the branch line, 2 for the main demonstration line, and 1 off on hire. In fact, you could have 2 off on hire without being too concerned about loco availability on-site.

    So even if DRC only had these 20 locos, and even if it kept a quite generous 5 locos available at all times, each loco would (roughly, on average) have 40 year cycles in which it was operational for 10 years, and then on static display or under overhaul for 30 years. Wouldn't that be a prudent policy?

    Obviously you could have 10 locos operational at any one time instead, in which case there would be a 20 year cycle of 10 years available, 10 years overhaul. But while the costs wouldn't be doubled (as wear and tear would not be doubled; unless perhaps there was lots of additional use from locos being hired out), I'm sure it would be significantly more expensive to dismantle, work on, and reassemble each engine every 10 years. And I doubt that there would be a significant increase in income; especially if (as I think you suggest) everyone else was doing likewise, so there was less demand to hire in engines. So how could such a policy be justified?

    I would suggest that the forward planning at DRC should not be aiming to keep turning around every loco as fast as possible, but instead aiming to keep a sufficient number, and good balance, of locos (so there is always something available to run on both its lines, as well as enough to satisfy the hiring requests of other railways) available at all times.
     
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  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I didn't suggest they do - but they do have the strength in depth to be able to run to relatively precise plans in a way that other groups might envy.
     
  4. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Some very kind things being said about the MNLPS here which I (as a committee member) note and am grateful for.

    We are more than the sum of our parts and we are incredibly lucky to have many supporters and volunteers that give up their time and effort to do work on our behalf.

    I am personally grateful for my predecessor, my colleagues on committee and friends in the society who support me in my work as treasurer.

    I don’t profess to say the following as an official MNLPS line - that’s for our PR man, Mr Cummings - but I think it’s clear that bringing together dedicated people who work hard and are able to listen to each other is the way to success.

    Re second boilers - I’d personally love a spare boiler and a second merchant navy to work on for the society - because the engineering department will always have something to work on and it would mean covering our work with a locomotive always available.

    But that’s my view, not an MNLPS view. Some might rightly question if having a second loco is a distraction from the aim of keeping Clan Line running.

    We’ve all had a chuckle at the mess room talk when this sort of thing comes up. Fact is, having one loco is a big undertaking and I don’t envy the additional paperwork for having two or more, particularly where finance is concerned!

    I rather suspect if it ever did happen - getting a second MN - I’d be eating my words and regretting opening my trap with the extra work!

    And once more for clarity - the above is not an official MNLPS line!
     
  5. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    So of the extant MNs, it would presumably be 9, 10 or 29. Which size of challenge do you fancy?!
     
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  6. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think what you mean is 35028 is the preferred engine for a regular ongoing series of trains and has the benefit of secure depot facilities owned by the operator of those trains. An enviable position to be in but it isn’t a guarantee of sufficient funds for a 10 year overhaul, the cost of which can only be guessed at until the loco has been dismantled. Then there are the ongoing nasties that tend to bite when least expected as has happened now (see MNLPS website).
     
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  7. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    Talk of acquiring a second loco would likely result in putting the chief engineer in the funny farm!
     
  8. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    When i see people talking about new builds and going mainline and they talk about driving wheel size and wide cylinders, is that all they think is the issues?

    When it comes to a new build its different to existing locos. First you need a VAB to sign you off at the moment im pretty sure this is only Ricardo rail, from here if you have done any design changes from the original drawings then you will need to get these signed off, this could include expensive computer modelling on things like the vampire program that the P2 used for its new front truck. Ok, so say you have this side all sorted, including the new safety case etc, that has cost a lot of money, then you'll need a TOC willing to do the running in process. As it stands there is only DB cargo that will do this, which means you'll then need an air braked loco, so thats another expense on top of all the above.

    Never mind the mainline equipment, and signalling equipment that will be added in the future.

    All this for a project that cant afford to build its own boiler, and has just p****d off over half of the enthusiast community..... I seriously cant even see it raising enough money to get it steaming with a no7 boiler right now.
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    That wasn't what I meant, but is I agree true. And I absolutely do not mean to imply that there are any guarantees of funding for any locomotive - but that MNLPS have achieved their enviable position through, amongst other things, the robustness of their group.
     
  10. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    If anyone can fix 29, they can! At least the paint is shiny.
     
  11. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    A good start might be for someone (anyone) to ask the question "How much?". A fair price would be whatever has been paid (or promised?) plus something more towards the cost of a new No.67 boiler.

    Edit: corrected 6 to 7
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  12. Lord Belborough

    Lord Belborough New Member

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    This is exactly the plan. First steaming of King George this weekend (in a fetching shade of Great Eastern Blue!). Next year 1466 will be finished. Pendennis should be out on hire in 2023 so everyone can get their Castle fix on a line slightly longer than Didcot's demo line.
     
  13. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    If working with me hasn't put him in the funny farm yet, likelihood is he may yet survive that...!
     
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  14. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Things being moved to less busy / freight only lines is probably inevitable, in which case acceleration is probably as important as speed.
    As far as i recall above 5ft 8 is 60, above 6ft 2 is 75 but these are not hard and fast rules with other factors such as age, intended use etc coming into play
    So Is a V4 ( 5ft 8)the same category as a K1 ? (5ft 2 ?) better tell the A1 boys quick before they build it...
    (having said that they are savvy enough to support a derog, or produce the wheels half an inch bigger , or both.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  15. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Noting the change of number and name of 45596 Bahamas to 45606 Falkland Islands at Swanage maybe 7027 could similarly change places, as required, with one on the other castles. After all it wouldn't be the first time this has happened with a Castle class.
     
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  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Just tell him, that the NRM have offered you 35029,:eek: and you have accepted it :)
     
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  17. maddog

    maddog New Member

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    For mainline use, is there an advantage in the greater superheat of the 7027 boiler, over the slightly smaller boiler size if used for the 4700?
     
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    There is, but you would have to make sure that the lube system was upto that/.
     
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  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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  20. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    Potentialy the least-worst solution.

    Depends what "consider" means. If they set out some criteria and stick to them, it it least lances the boil of the secretiveness surrounding the transaction.
     

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