If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

70013

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    8,736
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A good reason why I don't care how many locos the NRM gift away. By their own admission, the pathetic rebranding, they are not even the National Railway Museum now. Ollie must have earned a fair bit in steaming fees so what's happened to that cash?
     
  2. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,595
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Sorry John but the idea that steaming fees cover more than the operating costs is pure fantasy. Sure it earned a fair bit over the years but keeping it in traffic over this period has cost as much if not more. If the current custodians want to crack on with another overhaul, have they submitted a fully costed and funded plan of their aspirations and do they intend to operate it on the main line or keep it for GC use only. It is going to cost a lot of money to fund another overhaul and no one has said where this is coming from or where the capacity exists to carry out such an overhaul.

    Peter
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    29,166
    Likes Received:
    12,627
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Blue and grey stock and with a Mk.2 thrown in for good measure. Imagine the howls of protest if this combo had appeared in the preservation era. :)
     
  4. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,849
    Likes Received:
    6,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Interesting that there is a similar vibe in the diesel world, in particular with the group who've worked on 55002 being unable to do any work for the past year.
     
  5. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,849
    Likes Received:
    6,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If there were any surplus, would it have been ring-fenced for 70013 to be overhauled? And, in the context of the NRM having a number of locos to consider, would it even have been appropriate?
     
  6. weltrol

    weltrol Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,859
    Likes Received:
    207
    Leading 3 coaches are Mk2, then a Mk1, then some more mk2's.... the bottom tumblehome and curvature are the identifying features.
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    9,021
    Likes Received:
    4,247
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Having had dealings with the Science Museum myself this comes as no surprise to me.
     
  8. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,696
    Likes Received:
    1,412
    With the restructuring of the main line steam tour market into integrated owner operator TOCs, is this the sharp end of that? How many main line days a year does a loco have to achieve to justify a main line ticket? How likely is it that 6233, number 9, 70013 could expect to achieve that over the next decade given the in house locos which are available?

    60103, 60163 and 35028 are all special cases of various kinds. 6201 has I understand it achieved overhaul by being contracted to WCR for ? two years.

    I can see it is very frustrating to be in the position of not knowing what happens to 70013 now and not being told anything, but I could believe that a pause for thought might be in order.
     
    Johnme101, 240P15 and 26D_M like this.
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    866
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My sympathy is of course with anyone who has put the money and work into this (or any) locomotive that has seen it fit to run for the last 10 years and will in all likely see it good for much longer and now sees that effort 'disrespected'.
    Putting the other hat on the current set of people running the museum may not appreciate this and more than likely attach no urgency to the matter - and are perhaps unlikely to unless someone sends them a 'parking fine'-
    (which would certainly prompt a reaction, unfortunately that reaction might be to send it 'back to Bressingham' sharpish)

    Getting the right person ( or their boss) down to the GCR and discussing the matter over complimentary lunch on the dining train might be a good first step...?
     
    240P15, 30567 and 26D_M like this.
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    16,297
    Likes Received:
    23,696
    Location:
    21C102
    You are viewing this from the presumption that the Museum's primary role is to operate their collection in the short term - whereas they may well see their primary role to be to conserve their collection for the long term. Particularly with another of the same class in existence and with a likely long-term operational future, it's hard to see what the pressing requirement is from the NRM to see 70013 immediately operational.

    (And - I fully accept that museums have complex roles and constraints that can sometimes be mutually contradictory, that include both conservation and public access; and include a balance between their own capacity to store and display items, and maintaining relations with other bodies that might be willing to store and display them. So this isn't simple, and isn't a one-size fits all approach, but equally don't just assume that because an item has previously been operational, that immediately turning it round for another stint is inevitably the best idea when viewed through the custodianship lens of being a museum).

    Tom
     
    Landshrew, andrewshimmin, jnc and 6 others like this.
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,268
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Apprentice Rail Engineer, MNLPS Treasurer, Author
    Location:
    Sidcup, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I had many happy days as a volunteer at the GCR watching 70013 run in the late 00's. Watching her on the TPO thundering through was a highlight. Strangely enough 30777 on the very same side sticks in the mind too. Both locos a real influence on my formative years as a heritage railway volunteer.

    The engine that I miss the most of the NRM's GCR trio is 63601, the O4 (now in ROD guise I think?) - beautiful engine that sounded terrific and really motored on the windcutter set. Happy days indeed.

    All three of these engines have been looked after and run at the GCR. All three are iconic locomotives. There is a reasonable expectation that one or more should probably return to steam. However, as is ever the case, things change. Whatever lies in store for them, can we at least acknowledge that we have had in our lifetimes an extraordinary amount of time with this trio of steam locomotives, and, some pretty damn memorable trips.

    For that we must pay tribute to all involved in their running, maintenance and repair. We owe them a debt.

    I hope that 70013 runs again. I suspect it may be a little while longer before anything is planned. Up to us all to make the business case for our locomotives and improving their lot to keep them running.
     
    and60007, jnc, Johnme101 and 4 others like this.
  12. Enterprise

    Enterprise Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,080
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    The SMG's policies have been discussed not so long ago on NP and I gave links to the relevant documents then but those links are no longer valid and many policies have been updated. The new links are below. The documents are written in language typical of the modern public sector but are clearer than many. There is little comfort for railway enthusiasts eager to see mainline running of historic locomotives as in the past. Do not forget that few if any of the Railway Museum staff now have experience of railway operations. Their career path is in Museum Studies and they will move between museums and could be appointed to senior curator positions with little specialist knowledge. Judith McNicol is the recently appointed Director of the NRM and has at least worked there but it remains to be seen what direction she will take the museum. The only certainty is that any developments will be focussed on footfall and revenue.

    https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/policies-and-reports/

    https://group.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/conservation-policy-updated-0918.pdf
    (Note particularly p.3, 5.9 !!)
     
    60017 likes this.
  13. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,849
    Likes Received:
    6,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In this context, p.2, 5.7 may be more significant:
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    8,736
    Likes Received:
    7,156
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Perhaps I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the agreement was that the GC would run and maintain the loco on its own metals in lieu of steaming fees. It was the steaming fees for its Mainline work I was thinking of. I know they wouldn't come anywhere near covering the cost of an overhaul but that money must be accounted for somewhere.
     
  15. David likes trains

    David likes trains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Coventry
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Good news, after appearing in that ROD guise for Remembrance weekend the O4 went back into the shed at Loughborough for overhaul. So all being well will be back steaming in a few years.
     
    S.A.C. Martin, 45076 and Johnme101 like this.
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,222
    Likes Received:
    1,891
    Are we looking at Cromwell's future the wrong way round? Those in charge at the NRM probably don't much care whether the loco is overhauled again for another period of operation or kept for static display. Therefore I would not expect an initiative from that side. If the 5305 loco group believe they can raise the resources to carry out an overhaul, maybe they should approach the NRM with a proposal.
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,359
    Likes Received:
    6,180
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Out of sight, out of mind, might be one way to describe it, the staff at York don't see it every day, so its not a priority,like much of the on loan museum exhibits I suspect that apart from what livery, how far can we go with replacing worn out parts, in the early days of a restoration, its very much hands off. personally, I can wonder how big would the out cry be if the NRM decided to not renew loan agreements but to gift the engines already under the care of preserved railways to charitable trusts to ensure the future of these engines as there is no space either at York or Shildon to accept and NRM loco being returned .
     
  18. Steamage

    Steamage Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,454
    Likes Received:
    755
    Location:
    Oxford
    Steam Railway issue 488 hit the doormat yesterday morning. There's an 11-page photo "story" covering Ollie's preservation career. Apart from rather too much self-congratulation for the magazine's campaign to get her returned to steam, there are several short interviews with people associated with restoring and running the loco, including @Anthony Coulls of this parish. He is quoted on p51 as saying "The NRM is committed to operating the locomotive on the main line and we hope to make a further announcement on this in the near future." My interpretation of that? Another overhaul and main-line certificate is a matter of "when" not "if" but don't hold your breath.
     
    17B, Johnme101 and 26D_M like this.
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    29,166
    Likes Received:
    12,627
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  20. mdewell

    mdewell Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    311
    Occupation:
    UK & Ireland Heritage Railways Webmaster
    Location:
    Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think another point to bear in mind is that when the Goverment made many museums free admission, one of the knock on effects is that such museums now have less control over their finances. :( Although I have no real knowledge of how the funding works, they presumably have a very limited 'pot' of money and it must be difficult to justify additional spending above the day to day running costs of the museum itself. At least in the old days they presumably could spend whatever they liked from the income they received from admissions.
     

Share This Page