If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

70012 SCRAPPED ON ARRIVAL err.. rumour has it!

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by noelist, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
    So road hauliers DONT pay road tax, and road hauliers DONT pay massive fuel duty, and that blithering idiot Wilson DID stop 1000's of miles of railways closing then? And did Labour shun awarding new train contracts to Foreign companies and help the uks now virtualy non exisitant train building companies?
     
  2. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,275
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    ROTFLMAO!
     
  3. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    2,354
    Coboman,

    The issue is that the road haulers don't pay enough to meet the cost of the roads and their environmental impact - pollution, congestion, noise, CO2, deaths and injuries - which the Treasury calls "externalities". Failure to pay for these externalities is a form of hidden subsidy. If the hauliers did pay, and there were a level playing field with other modes - air transport is a particular recipient of these hidden subsidies - then the economics of moving goods by rail would further improve. This wouldn't take us back to the early 1950s, but it would mean many fewer containers on the A14 from Felixstowe et al.

    Tobbes
     
  4. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
    The best part of 50 BILLION pounds in tax revenue just from fuel and road tax. If you think the government isn't using that to subsides its many other expenses, then your sadly mistaken. If you fancy paying 20 or 30p a mile on top of what you already pay to get about and like paying £5 for a loaf of bread etc, then go ahead, lobby for more transport tax. I'm sure it will do wonders to our already teetering economy.
     
  5. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    5
    Occupation:
    Pensioner!
    Location:
    North-west London
    I would doubt if it would be possible to run the 1950s volume of freight on the railway now. There are just too many passenger trains! Seriously though, much of the railway network is full and even bringing back into service the main and secondary lines that were closed wouldn't make too greater difference. We're stuck with heavy lorries.

    The line from East Anglia to the Midlands is being brought back into service to help the A14 problem.

    Regards
     
  6. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Where is your figure for £50 billion from?

    The 2010 Budget Report forecasts £27.5 billion Fuel Duty (which includes duty on non-road fuels) and £6 billion vehicle excise duty for 2010-11. Allowing for those non-road duties, that is about half your figure.

    Steven
     
  7. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
    Department of transport figures. There was 47 million tonnes of oil consumed by road transport in the UK last year. The tax on that is 81p a litre. That works out at just over 50 billion pounds. Take some off because of business claiming back the VAT and some is lubrication oil and you end up somewhere in the region of more than 40 billion. Hense the best part of 50 billion (just to help, best part means the larger portion, ie greater than 25 billion) Never ever believe Budget report figures. Most are just pulled out of the air.
     
  8. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    7,688
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Former NP Member
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oh dear! "Best part" usually means "most of" - although muliplying 47 million by 81p and gets more than 47 million pounds is even more problematic! May I also point out that, as far as I am aware, 1,000 litres of road fuel doesn't weigh exactly a toone, so how does 47 million tonnes at 81p per litre end up in billions of £ of duty anyway.

    I suspect I could guess pretty which newspaper you get this stuff from - oddly, such titles don't seem to have carried exclusives that the Budget Report figures are made up! Presumably, the fictious figures include the table that says Fuel duty on Unleaded or Heavy Fuel oil is 0.5895 p per litre from 1st January 2011. Or is that merely "the best part of" 81p? I suspect the figure of 81p is the Duty plus VAT, which is indeed what the public may pay but I would be very surprised if more than a handful of hauliers are not VAT registered - quite apart from being able to reclaim the VAT on their fuel, wagons cost quite a bit and have VAT on them as well. And the £27 billion includes duty on non-road fuel, which has actually gone up by more pence per litre in recent years 9and indeed the net selling price of Red Diesel has risen from about 40/litre three years ago to 65p plus now).

    Steven
     
  9. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    281
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Post office
    Location:
    South
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I hate be to Mr. Picky but what does this have to do with 70012?
     
  10. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    4,240
    Likes Received:
    5,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    C.Eng
    Location:
    On the 45th!
  11. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
  12. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
    my Bad, I missread the number of naughts, its 470million, not 47.
     
  13. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,155
    Likes Received:
    302
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway servant
    Location:
    Worcester
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Another Class 70?
     
  14. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It wouldn't make it any less ugly!
     
  15. Coboman

    Coboman Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    GNR Outpost
    Post of the week! LOL
     

Share This Page