If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

6201, her new lease of life.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sidmouth, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,327
    Likes Received:
    5,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    Given that 71000 was built as the direct replacement for 46202 shouldn't that loco also be considered as an "LMS class 8 loco" hence there are 3 kinds of this type in existence / preservation.
     
  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    3,027
    Likes Received:
    5,232
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No.

    In the same way that Baby Scots and Jubilees were built by the LMS to replace LNWR Claughtons and L&YR Dreadnoughts. They aren't LNWR or L&YR engines.
     
    clinker, ragl, Bluenosejohn and 8 others like this.
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    15,013
    Likes Received:
    17,476
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    No it shouldn’t, it’s not an LMS class 8. By your logic a class 40 should also be considered to be an LMS engine
     
  4. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,668
    Likes Received:
    708
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I thought that in the ownership of its Society, that it will always carry LMS Crimson Lake so can't see that changing.

    Fingers crossed Trackside are correct and that work has started again in the loco.
     
  5. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    15,013
    Likes Received:
    17,476
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You are correct but I was hoping that Mr Smith may have negotiated that away, something like; we will do the overhaul but the choice of livery must be mine.
     
  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    26,947
    Likes Received:
    25,972
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Given the histories of the society and of WCRC on livery, I suspect that would have been a major sticking point for the society.
     
  7. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,706
    Likes Received:
    2,483
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Good news about 6201.
    I might get to read about it at some point if Trackside turns up. The post service round our way is pretty useless at the moment.

    Sent from my XQ-BT52 using Tapatalk
     
    Sheff likes this.
  8. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,921
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    TBC
    Location:
    Birmingham & Arley
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm more concerned at the engine being solely overhauled for use on the Northern Belle only ! It would be a crying shame if the general day tripper and enthusiast don't get a chance to travel behind Lizzie on the CME, Dalesman or any other in house/operated WC excursion.
     
  9. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2019
    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    Kirkcaldy
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Totally agree.
     
    toplink likes this.
  10. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    3,435
    Location:
    northumberland
    6201 on one cab side, 46201 on the other and a James Bond Aston Martin-style rotating smokebox plate with a selection of numbers from 46200/6200 up to 46212/6212 should do it.
     
  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    8,327
    Likes Received:
    5,319
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Freelance photo - journalist
    Location:
    Southport
    Why ? In some respects 6201 is a prestige locomotive in the same vein as 60103; 6201 as being named after the recently deceased monarch and 60103 as the first Pacific completed by the LNER. If 60103 can charge a premium hire fee why shouldn't 6201 be equally restricted to a premium service (i.e. the Northern Belle) where the premium fee can help offset the expensive overhaul that will be required to return it to mainline service.

    As many owners are now finding out overhauls for mainline service come at a high price (+ £1 million) and the prices paid for "Lizzie on the CME, Dalesman or any other in house / operated WC excursion" have possibly been identified by WCRC as insufficient to recoup the overhaul cost whereas the premium Northern Belle charges will give a better return.
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    26,947
    Likes Received:
    25,972
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm far from convinced that 6201 commands a premium in the way that 60103 does, royal associations notwithstanding. Otherwise, I agree completely with your views.
     
  13. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,031
    Likes Received:
    6,987
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Escapee from the corporate bear-pit
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    And the alternative scenario is that if two (or more) air braked locos are available for the prestige Northern Belle then neither need be restricted to that work exclusively. However Tangmere is a West Coast loco and unless control of 6201 has passed from the Society how much West Coast work the loco will see will depend on whatever terms the overhaul is being done under. As ever speculation is nothing more than fun !
     
  14. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    15,013
    Likes Received:
    17,476
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I understand that the society are skint so it may be done under an overhaul and use basis with no steaming fees, similar to the arrangements on some heritage lines. It’s certainly not a prestige loco in the same league as FS
     
    acorb, Gav106 and green five like this.
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    18,310
    Likes Received:
    11,844
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What about 60103, that's also air braked, so that means there is 2 engines that could be used and you might argue 60103, is a far higher profile engine, i'm surprised it hasn't been used more on Northern belle workings, As regards 6201, its very hard separating fact from fiction, over this engine, does the owning group have the funds to overhaul it, or are they dependent on some kind of deal with David Smith,
     
  16. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    15,013
    Likes Received:
    17,476
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think the NRM has a bit of a say in when and where FS operates. The last time I looked at the society accounts they had virtually no funds at all
     
  17. AMP

    AMP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    444
    Likes Received:
    317
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Being owned and more importantly bank rolled by the nation means 60103 has to be accessible to all. It can't just be restricted to the operations that make the most money

    Andrew
     
    green five, Jamessquared and Johnb like this.
  18. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,809
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ditto :(


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    green five likes this.
  19. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    3,598
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Totally different markets, surely, so if the less prestigious workings can be accommodated and are financially worthwhile, why not?
     
  20. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    If you want to pay the bills that is exactly what you have to do. You have to try to cover your costs and given the limited number of trains 60103 is allowed to work in a year and the reluctance of the Science Museum to fund working exhibits what else do you do?
     

Share This Page