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Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I didn't realize express passenger engines were sometimes used on freights; I knew about the converse (e.g. the 47xx Night Owls being used on passenger trains on summer excursion runs), but this one is new to me. Live and learn!

    Noel
     
  2. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    It was a regular thing, the MN that worked the down ACE worked back to London with an Exeter to Nine Elms freight
     
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  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Kings Cross - Niddrie “Scotch Goods” was a regular 34A top link turn, frequently with Pacific haulage.
     
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  4. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I posted this earlier Ian:
    “Should have been known as the ‘Scottish Goods’ as it never carried any of the ‘hard stuff ‘;)."
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  5. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    There’s a well known story about the legendary driver, Bill Hoole, being carpeted after working the Scotch goods when someone noticed an entry in the guards log; signal check by preceding train. He had run down the morning Talisman!
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Maybe it should have been but it wasn’t ;)
     
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  7. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Take it has been extended a year, due to losing last year??
     
  8. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I remember hearing that story too. I had my first footplate ride with Bill, on Prince, at the F.R. c.1962 - he was a real gentleman.
    Ray.
     
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  9. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Now there's a wider question.

    I ask this from an uniformed position, so apologies if it's a daft question: What with many motor insurance companies making allowance for non or far lower use during the restrictions, surely the issue of a degree parity of treatment comes into play, at the very least for those lines (if not for 'in ticket' individual locos) which remained completely inactive last year?
     
  10. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    No, a boiler certificate lasts until it expires, the use made of it during the period makes no difference
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There is no hard and fast rule (and if it comes to it, no such thing as a "ten yearly" either).

    Ultimately, boilers have to be inspected annually, in two parts (a cold inspection, followed by an in steam inspection). On the basis of what he / she observes, and his / her knowledge of the boiler's history, the boiler inspector will either agree, or not, to a further extension of the boiler life, for notionally another year (though typically fourteen months). In a sense, the annual boiler exam is a bit like a car's MoT: a competent person does a thorough inspection, and on the basis of receiving that, the insurer agrees to a further time-limted period in operation, after which another inspection is required.

    A possible scenario is that the boiler inspector, and the railway's "responsible person" (who is accountable for the management of boilers on site) may be monitoring a particular boiler knowing that it is degrading at a certain rate; for example, a plate might be getting gradually thinner, but operation can continue within limits that have not yet been reached. In that scenario, if a boiler has not been used for a year and was properly laid up during that time, degradation may not have occurred, and the likely lifetime before which it would remain in limits would accordingly extend; however, that would still require sanction from the boiler inspector.

    Ultimately, every situation is different. I suspect that both 2020 and 2021 will be anomalous in usage terms, and a likely consequence is that we may see a number of locos going further in time (though not necessarily mileage) than would have been anticipated at the end of 2019.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  12. 69530

    69530 New Member

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    A slight correction, always with pacific haulage, saw it many many times, the vast majority of the time with an immaculate A4, if one not available an A1, and once with an A3 60039 Sandwich.

    For a young lad in North London an amazing sight a long line of short wheelbase vans all seemingly moving indepentantly and the Kylchap A4 working really hard an amazing sound and sight.

    For those that never experienced it, you missed a treat !!
     
  13. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    Under the Pressure System Safety Regulations (PSSR) an extension beyond the normal 10 year maximum period between full inspections can be requested. This must be done before the end of the 10 year period and only one extension can be given. The inspector will consider this and decide on what inspections are required before the extension is granted. The extension will depend on the condition of the boiler rather than the use of it, although use will obviously affect the condition.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Not sure that's quite right, Richard. There is nothing in PSSR about 10 years. The periodicity of exams is in the owners written scheme, which is usually, but not necessarily, drawn up by the Competent Person (boiler inspector in old language). I'm not a boiler inspector but I have drawn up written schemes in the past in my working life and simply got the inspector to approve and sign them. The written scheme generally specifies examination intervals of 14 months (12 month plus a bit of leeway). The ORR recommends that no part of a boiler should go more than 10 years without examination and written schemes will often specify a full internal and external examination after 10 years but that is not always the case. The all important piece of paper is the boiler inspection certificate issued by the boiler inspector after each examination, which will state the date that the boiler may be used until. As said above, usually 14 months but not necessarily so. this is the critical date and it is this that you can only seek one extension to under Reg 9(7) of the PSSR. The requirement for a hydraulic test and anything else will be in the owners Written Scheme and, provided the boiler inspector agrees, this is a moveable feast.
     
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  15. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

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    Thanks for the correction #Steve. I am a little out of touch with PSSR since my retirement.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
  16. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    I believe 35027 Port Line ran several years beyond the nominal '10 year' ticket (on Agreement)? It was restored in 1988, Wiki has it being withdrawn in 2003 having steamed a limited number of times following some boiler work in 2000.
     
  17. AMP

    AMP Member

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    Yes and no. 35027 ran between 1988 and 2002/3 but was out of traffic for considerable periods (1996ish to 2000ish).

    I think 34072 ran more continuous between 1990 and 2003 and 60532 went way over 10 years as well (I can't remember who long that was out of traffic after Durham in 94)

    Andrew
     
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  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Sure I’ve seen pictures of V2 haulage. Would that have been last minute coverage for a failed Pacific?
     
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    34072 was 12 years iirc, 35027 was 14 years but with 4 years out. 60532 was 12 years in total also iirc.
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Whilst appreciating the replies (thanks folks!) I'm now mightily confused!! I do seem to recall, at some point, during BR days IIRC, mainline certified locos' boilers being 'ticketed' for 7 years at a stretch, or is my memory playing tricks?

    I'm guessing the answer lies somewhere in the zone bordered by considerations of boiler design and construction (riveted v welded, steel v copper firebox), age, maintenance and inspection schedules.

    It's all come a long way from the Haydn-Jones era "We are always extremely careful", quoted by Tom Rolt with regard to any form of public liability insurance on the TR.
     
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