Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.
Another from Sunday morning departing Ramsbottom
Number 9-Nearing The End?
60009 arrives at Bury with the last service train of the day on 18 January 2020
Some great shots of No 9 in the opening of this film and of No 27.
A good photo yes, but I think it's rather sad, a thoroughbred from the glory days of ECML steam reduced to running tender first with 5/6 coaches
Let's be grateful for what we have at present. Mr Cameron has decided that his thoroughbred loco won't be pulling any coaches after April. <BJ>
Better that than retired to a museum IMO.
So, would you be OK with him melting it down into razor blades? Please feel free to provide separate 'legal' and 'moral' answers.
(I know, there's absolutely no chance he will; I'm just trying to find out if your approval has limits.)
Simple answer is, yes he has the right, legally and morally. It's his property.
Legally, yes, or course. Morally though? How about if Rocket was in private hands? What about a priceless painting, or a historical artefact of major national importance? Surely it's only an argument of scale, how important does something have to be before the moral right to do as you please with your own property is trumped by the moral right of future generations to enjoy and study that artefact?
Like @jnc , I'm not suggesting this applies to 60009, just exploring the views behind it hypothetically.
What if - hypothetically of course - that on his demise JC wishes to be buried with his loco hence digging a large pit on his lad where he and loco could be buried with only a headstone above ground to mark the spot. Be grateful that JC is prepared to make arrangements for its future so that it can be seen despite seeking not to repair it to save it from potential abuse.
IMHO the burghers of Fife CC are short-sighted and have failed to appreciate the potential increase in visitor numbers that JC's original scheme would generate; one hopes to see a change of mind but some people are locked in a mindset that refuses to acknowledge a greater good - until too late. Is it worth pointing out the errors of the landowners in Northampton circa the 1840s ?
I think others have pre-empted me. He does have the legal right to melt down No. 60009, but morally it would be a step too far for me and I suspect for most people. Maybe I could have phrased my statement better, but he has amply demonstrated his affection for UoSA in many ways since purchasing it from BR, not just financial. For example, I believe he travelled all the way down to Sussex when it was the guest engine at the Bluebell Railway's "Giants of Steam" weekend and I also saw a picture of him on the footplate when his loco worked the special over the Border Railway with the Queen on board. He was clearly as pleased as punch. It therefore never occurred to me that he wold be remotely likely to take the course of action you suggested and what is more, I very much doubt if such a thought has ever occurred to him either. Anyway, I hope this answers your question.
I expect you disagree with the people who don't think he has a moral right to plinth it, but at least you're consistent!
The first part does, yes; thanks. As I said,"there's absolutely no chance he will" melt it down, so the later observation was outside what I was curious about.
In isolation it does seem silly to not approve JC’s plans but they can’t be taken in isolation. Going against policy creates precedents which others will then seek to exploit.
And at Tring, where the railway ended up over a mile from the town.
I did hear a rumour that Cameron planned to fill the boilers of both his locos with concrete to ensure they could never run again... no idea if there's any truth to it!
Where is 60009 going after withdrawal?
Separate names with a comma.