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60009

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I shall recant everything I have said about Gresley’s finest, which clearly have powers to run at blinding speed uphill that exceed even the ability of the GWR to run newly outshopped Saints at land speed record pace ...

    Tom
     
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Davo is half right as 4468 was on the up line (heading towards London) when it broke the record I believe.
     
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  3. Davo

    Davo Member

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    Correction borsig DRG O5 at 125mph 4 2nd steam record and pensilvania E7 7002 at 115 at 3rd dident know flying hamburger were a diesel sorry.
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Of course. As the great man said, the art of fast running is the ability to run fast uphill so clearly the A4's matched his brief perfectly.
     
  5. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    Hold on, the maths (nor the history) adds up there...
     
  6. BrightonBaltic

    BrightonBaltic Member

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    Pennsy E7 was a good loco but like the Saint the alleged speed record claim is bollox. The real record holder is the DRG 05 at 124.5 sustained on level track... Mallard's momentary spike to 125.88 downhill doesn't really count.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Gresley himself only claimed 125, it was BR who claimed the 126 after re-examination of the dynamometer scrolls. And it counts no matter what the gradient.
     
  8. mdewell

    mdewell Member

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    Nah, wrong colour (Now if they were to paint it yellow. . . . :D)
     
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  9. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    I’m sure this (like a lot of things on this forum!) has been argued till all were Blue in the face...and no I’m not trying to start another paint froth thread ;)
     
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  10. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    That's about right , especially without valances.:Happy:
    And yon Tom James Squared fella has achieved a 1st, he's got himself TWO dedicated pages in 'the Book'

     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I love Mallard and the A4s.

    But Concorde is another level of engineering achievement. By far greater than anything any of of our steam locomotive engineers managed, because it did something that nothing else did, and no other country ever managed, and did it twice daily for decades.

    Mallard is amazing and I love it. But it’s not so special in engineering achievement that it should be up on the pedestal next to Concorde. Very few steam locomotives should be.

    Probably, only Rocket, and a generic 0-6-0 tender engine, for the rapid sea change made by the former and the ubiquitous throughout the globe of the latter.
     
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  12. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    Why not? As far as I’m aware there are, and never have been, officially agreed ‘rules’ for railway speed records. With no serious competition for speed records, there has never been the need.
     
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  13. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    It's in all the record books and so it should be.


    Mallard is the holder of the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (203 km/h). The record was achieved on 3 July 1938 on the slight downward grade of Stoke Bank south of Grantham on the East Coast Main Line, and the highest speed was recorded at milepost 90¼, between Little Bytham and Essendine.

    Where did you get 125.88 from?
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed. And in doing so this particular racehorse pulled a hamstring that some might argue suggests it was well beyond its limits.

    I use as my marker the locomotive that we will see again on the main line - 60007. SNG hit 112 down Stoke in 1959 with a load of one coach more than Mallard and the train was full rather than half empty. This run also covered the Corby to Tallington section down Stoke in a faster time than Mallard because the latter loco was severely eased after its speed spike. Unlike Mallard, SNG also managed to complete its journey to include touching 100 again at Tempsford and topping Stevenage at a remarkable 78.

    So whilst Mallard has the badge, other A4s actually give a much better 'in the round' story of what the A4s were capable of and that includes No.9. Don't forget that both Mallard and SNG also achieved what they did at the ultimate expense of steam. Who can say what they might have achieved with the technology of a Bulleid boiler to help? :)

    As for 60009, I do wonder whether supporters of John Cameron will be able to find a compromise that, if nothing else, will allow it to be seen by future generations. But to do any more will require someone to help with deep pockets.
     
  15. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    Just occasionally, a little thread drift is to be congratulated in my opinion.
     
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  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Were Bulleid and Gresley both in the LNER drawing offices at the same time? so might they have both worked together, ? As regards deep pockets, given recent news about Icons of Steams plans to purchase a Scottish base for future operations, would a tie in with the Royal Scot Trust meet John Cameron's concerns, it would ensure the future of the engines, based in Scotland, and in time might allow a working future for both engines, At least JC would be assured that they would be in safe hands .
     
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  17. big.stu

    big.stu Member

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    I agree with most of that, but I'll just leave this here: TU-144 (Concorde was far superior though!)

    Sorry, even more thread drift...
     
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  18. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Bulleid was Gresley's assistant at Doncaster.
     
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  19. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    The difference being that when 60007 ran down Stoke Bank at 112, it had the benefit of a much-improved centre big-end bearing, which obviously was showing its worth. Other factors may also have been involved too, but it's worth wondering what 4468 could have done back in '38, had it had the benefit of a big-end which wasn't showing signs of distress as speed rose beyond what had gone before.
    Had a speed record attempt still been been a priority in '59, would 60007 have equalled, or maybe even bettered, 4468's 126 mph? We will never know.
    One thing is apparent though - the lack of side valances didn't seem to be hampering 60007, speed was still rising as Driver Hoole was instructed to ease back.

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  20. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    In Engineman Extraordinary (great read) - Bill always believed that the record was there to be broken...
     
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