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60009

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by BillyReopening, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Because Bittern is just there pending its place in the overhaul queue.
     
  2. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to guess/assume that you wouldn't be OK with him deciding to melt it down into razor blades? If so, both you and those you disagree with are willing to call on him to not exercise his full legal rights - and the distinction between the two positions is merely a matter of degree - over which I think it's best if we all just agree to disagree.

    Noel
     
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  3. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The most important thing (for me at least) is that John Cameron is happy with whatever direction his engine heads in at the end of her ticket.
     
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  4. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    As background, John Cameron's intentions were described in this Railway Magazine article.
    https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/1448/cameron-a4-and-k4-are-not-for-sale-at-any-price/

    He has established the Cameron Railway Trust. The Trust's Object according to the Scottish Charity Register is that "The Trustees shall hold the trust estate for the following purposes:- (i) to provide a suitable exhibition space at Balbuthie for those locomotives and other railway heritage assets transferred into the trust for their public display for educational and historical preservation purposes and to arrange for the installation of the locomotives and other railways assets; and (ii) to arrange for the public display of the locomotives, numbers 60009 and 61994 and all other assets gifted to the trust or purchased by them, in a manner compatible with their conservation and preservation for the benefit of the general public and railway historians."

    According to their last published accounts the Trust has been involved in seeking the planning permission which press reports suggest has been rejected on several occasion. I do not know how Mr Cameron will proceed in the event the Balbuthie museum is completely rejected, ie whether he would then consider selling the locos or whether he would look to the Trust to continue in that role but at another location. One could speculate and express personal preferences, but it is probably pointless to do so.
     
  5. dublo6231

    dublo6231 Member

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    Ok - like the proverbial 60041 - I'll rise and take the bait as I have a very deep affection for Number 9.

    I would suggest that given that in this year he would of owned her for three times longer than British Rail did (2021 would be five times longer than LNER) - it would be highly unlikely that John would do that to his pride and joy - but if that's what he decides to do; then so be it - it has got nothing to do with me or any of us.

    To put it another way, without his affection and ownership, there would be no memory of her post 1966 so she could of been turned into razor blades then; we should count ourselves lucky for the experiences that we have had.
     
  6. Dan Taylor

    Dan Taylor New Member Account Suspended

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    But its stuffed right now in a shed so wheres the outrage, would be a while before it does steam again for all we know no 9 might steam again before it.who knows
     
  7. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    The point is we do know, the intention is '09 WONT steam again. Thats the outrage*. We know the intention is that Bittern WILL steam again, Thats the difference.

    *An outrage I don't share BTW. If there was only one A4, it would be an outrage for it to be stuffed. There are however 2 others that will be steamed in the future.
     
  8. Dan Taylor

    Dan Taylor New Member Account Suspended

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    You didn't intend to raise it getting upset that a loco isn't intended to steam again.

    Theres also no need to shout, Caps imply you are shouting, so settle down kid before you blow your pacemaker, a high blood pressure over one loco not steaming again isn't worth it.
     
  9. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    No steam locomotive has ever been stuffed to my knowledge. Its a patently ridiculous phrase. Locomotives can be and have been out of use on display in museums for decades and then brought out again and steamed.
     
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  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    You seem to have plucked that quote from thin air, it doesn't exist...
    But yes, the phrase "Stuffed and mounted" does imply some degree of reversibility, although "stuffed in a shed" might not mean the same thing.
     
  11. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree, I'm much more disappointed that the same fate is to befall 3442 though, as it means I'll probably never see a K4 in steam. :(
     
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  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Posting entirely in caps is shouting, and bad netiquette. Putting an occasional word in caps is just another form of emphasis, marginally easier than bothering with bold.
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    As others have already said, It's his Engine and his decision as to where it goes, my original question was if the planned museum he has been trying to get planning permission for does not allow him to display his loco's then, whats his plan B, Bo'ness would be best, if it can accommodate it , and he wants both engines on the same site, I believe he has set up a trust that on his death, the engines will be transferred to .
     
  15. 69530

    69530 New Member

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    And I might add hear a K4 working hard, a great shame for you.
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    In purely practical terms, the best places for a K4 are on the West Highland and Kyle lines. Anywhere else is less appropriate for any number of reasons so if a future cannot be guaranteed on the former of these then aside from a heritage line, a museum is the most sensible ultimate destination, in my view.

    The A4 is different as even with the odd gauging/weight issue it has plenty of scope for a continued presence on the main line. However, the 'on-costs' of doing this are phenomenal. Who can blame Mr Cameron for saying "Enough is enough and I'm done with spending my family's inheritance on my passion".

    Anyone who thinks less of the man because he may choose an outcome that they don't like really should get a life. Year after year he has demonstrated where his heart lies and I would be amazed if any concluding gesture over his locomotives was anything other than sensible and realistic. And if not, so what?
     
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  17. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    At least I managed that, here ya go .
     
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  18. Tim Light

    Tim Light Well-Known Member

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    The main line market can only support a limited number of locomotives, so it's inevitable that more will be stored or under overhaul at any one time than available for service. Very often these stored locos are out of sight and/or partially dismantled. I have no objection to 60009 and 61994 being displayed in museum conditions. It gives us a chance to get up close and see the detail.

    There will be new locos coming onstream to compensate for the loss of 60009 and 61994, not least the P2 and V4. Much to look forward to.
     
  19. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    If he wants to stop spending money on them, I'm totally fine with that - Lord knows he's done more than most. And if 'the community' can't/won't replace the funding (other priorities, etc) , so that the loco(s) have to be plinthed; again, that's totally reasonable.

    Is that the situation, though?

    Noel
     
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  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Sorry but in many peoples' eyes there is no compensation for the loss of a main line capable A4. The P2 and V4 will be welcome additions to the scene I agree but you cannot have enough working A4s in my book.
     
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