5972

What like City of Birmingham?

 

I was going to reply along much the same lines. I'd add that this should guarantee safe accommodation for 5972, with some form of income towards future overhaul. The other issue with going straight into overhaul will have been a question of capacity - there's a limit to the number of overhauls that West Coast can manage and there'll no doubt be a pecking order and long-term plan for the fleet that 5972 might not fit into for a while.

Simon

 

I assume the subtext of your phrase is that you think 5972 will now never emerge to run again? But Warner Bros isn't a museum like that in Birmingham, who necessarily take a long-term view of the stewardship of the items under their care.

Rather, I see Warner Bros as just another commercial owner of the loco - albeit a bit of an unconventional one by the standards we are used to. But like any commercial owner, they will use the loco as they see fit commercially, and when it no longer meets their commercial requirements, no doubt they will try to dispose of that. I suppose theoretically that disposal could mean scrapping, but it is far more likely to mean a future sale complete, since a complete loco is worth more than the scrap metal price.

In that respect, it is not so different from the current situation of the majority of the UK steam fleet, which is not running, in many instances has not run for many years, and which in most cases you have to pay some kind of entrance fee to see - if you can see them at all. OK, the fee to see 5972 may be rather higher than the average preserved railway, and for a steam buff, the rest of the attraction is no doubt rather limited once you've seen the engine, but fundamentally this is simply another sale of a pivately owned locomotive, whose future has been assured for the next few years. When Warner Bros feel that Harry Potter is no longer making sufficient revenue for them, they will redevelop the site and no doubt have some kind of sale of the various props, at which point 5972 will become available again. That hardly seems a worse fate than dozens of other locos up and down the country that haven't run for years. Indeed, it is a rather better fate than faces, say, 34073 - or indeed scores of locos currently sitting outside, not running and inaccessible at preserved railways up and down the country.

I think people complaining are just getting sniffy that Warner Bros doesn't feel like "one of us". But I don't feel the risk to the loco is significantly greater than the risk to many locos that are owned by "us". All the time the loco isn't scrapped, there is a possibility it will run again - just take a long view!

Tom

 

might be better if it was not under cover, it would be available to Preservation that bit quicker once it got scruffy

 

Sorry, in what sense is CoB "not available for preservation"? What you mean is "not available for me to froth over YouTube videos of while it races up and down the mainline" - which is entirely different.

Being under cover and in public ownership, CoB is securely preserved to a far greater extent than hundreds of other locomotives in the country. Or do you consider the best preservation outcome for a locomotive is to stick it outside until it rusts to a significant degree, and then flog it off to a private owner to do with as they see fit?

Tom

 

If it wasn't for private owners/owner groups, the heritage railway scene in this country would be very poor indeed. CoB as it is preserved currently does nothing for me - I like things to work - but I accept that it's safe for future generations.

 

Its a new definition of preservation that I was previously unaware of that wants a locomotive to rust and rot rather than be looked after. "Preservation" is not short of rusting neglected wrecks rotting away in headshunts, not even Halls, and it seems peculiarly perverse to want further locomotives in that condition.

 

5972

 

I'm not against private ownership, and many private owners do an excellent job of preserving their locos for future generations to enjoy - one thinks of Jeremy Hosking, but there are others deserving such credit. But to listen to Reading General, he seems to think that a locomotive sitting rotting in a siding somewhere witha vague promise that someday it may go mainline is somehow "preserved", while the same loco in dry, secure, undercover storage somehow isn't...

Tom

 

Have to agree on that point, while I accept it's totally impractical to steam everything, working steam in my opinion is a far more powerful tool to draw people into railway preservation than a cold lump of metal as a static exhibit, as well presented as they are, you can't appreciate the power, noise, smell, sight etc, seems rather like seeing a stuffed Lion in a museum when you can go to Africa and see one in the wild.

Not a dig at Museums's/static exhibits, just an honest opinion based on my feelings.

 

again ....5972.....

 

How many railtour/mainline trips did No. 5972 make last year? You could most likely count on one hand, and I don't recall most of the forum being up in arms about that during 2013....

I don't think any of us can guess even close to what has happenned in this deal, but if it has been part of a sale, then WCRC are sure to have benefitted handsomely and money which could be poured in to other locomotives and rolling stock that will most likely spend more than 3 days a year on the Network's metals. If No. 5972 goes to London to sit in the Harry Potter studios, then she is simply carrying out the same duties she performed sitting in the National Railway Museum, except that she'll be seen by a much larger audience.

 

Sorry - you're losing me. What's your point?

Tom

 

There's also the thought that in the theme park tens or hundreds of thousands of people who would never go near a preserved railway or railway museum will come in contact with a real locomotive with real solid metal, not just an ersatz Hollywood imitation. It only needs the tiniest percentage of them to gain some sort of curiosity about these huge machines, and far more has been done for the future of preservation than any number of mainline excursions.

 

I agree on that point, with filming now done and dusted "Potter Mania" will be on a slow decline now as the kids into it grow up and following generations take less of an interest in something they didn't see when new.

In that respect I find it odd to be setting up such a place now, surely the best time would have been after the first film with the hype of a further 5 odd to keep visitor numbers high ?.

If your after working Halls, I believe 6990 and 6989 are in line for a return this year.

 

Think that's a bit unfair, there isn't a great clamour to use it in Hogwarts Red from those outside Harry Potter fans, imagine how much stick RTC would get from some if they rostered it to a WCME instead of 46115.

 

Okay, shall I extend this to all Hall's? How many Hall's hauled tours ran in 2013? Would there be a market for another green Hall on the mainline for the next 7 years, with the revenue for WCRC exceeding what the possible sale price it has gained ( and that's after you include her boiler certificate is up in due course, and the repainting in to green? ).

 

How many Halls were available though ?, 4965 ran a number of tours for VT, but rarely if ever is hired out to another promoter, that leaves 4936which apart from gala and preserved line visits, doesn't seem to stray far from Tyseley, so maybe some owners considerations coming into play there ?.

Having excluded 5972 on grounds of it's current appearance, it's somewhat easier said than done to pick up a Hall for general charter work than you'd think.

Not saying WCRC are wrong outright, but Mainline Hall availability isn't as free as you'd think.