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5952 Cogan Hall

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by paullad1984, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    Nothing larger than a 5101 Prairie, 43xx Mogul or a Bulldog 4-4-0 ran on the WSR in BR days because of the axle load restrictions (now lifted). There is one report of a 28xx 2-8-0 hauling a train of Army tanks during the war, but that was very much an exception.

    The WSR now has quite a lot of experience using Halls (4920, 4936, 4953, 6960, 6990) and they are pretty well suited to the line. Both the Halls and the 28xx/2884 Class 2-8-0s which share the same Standard No 1 boiler have turned out to be quite economical. Several crews remarked that 4953's performance on the line last year was very good.

    Incidentally Cogan Hall has a higher superheat boiler from a Modified Hall, but the extra superheating is unlikely to make much difference to the economy under typical Heritage Line running conditions.

    David
     
  2. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for posting this, it more or less confirms what I suspected. I'd be surprised if the WSR (or a group of supporters) weren't interested in this engine. I bet the 7820 group wish it had come on the market a few months earliier!
     
  3. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Braunton is currently based there and enough Pacifics have ran there in the past, as someone remarked earlier very few loco's will be completely ideal to a lines needs.
     
  4. brit70000

    brit70000 Member

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    You did specify a 6'8" pacific, which would not therefore include Braunton!
     
  5. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Maybe someone from the Gloucs/Warks would like to comment on the economies of Foremarke and Raveningham Hall? Certainly the SVR has always appeared to like Halls with 6960 a former resident, 4930 in line for overhaul and 4936 hired last summer. Will be interesting to see how much use 35006 get when it returns to service, a true coal guzzler!
     
  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Ive always felt using a "Big" loco (class 7 or 8) on 4 or 5 coach trains, as i have seen done, is like using a ferrari to tow a caravan.
    Yes theyre nice to look at, and on galas i can understand it, but day to day use.....
     
  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Cant really compare the econimies of the halls at the GWR to one at the WSR the line is pretty much flat.
    As for 35006 that should see normal regular use. It was found that when Can Pac was on loan that once the box was filled it wasn't as uneconimial as some would of had you believe so I see no reason why P&O will be ant different.
     
  8. andy-61264

    andy-61264 New Member Loco Owner

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    Thats my view the loco isn't even working :(
     
  9. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The ideal loco for the GWR would probably be a Small Prairie or thereabouts but how many of them are going spare that are not totally knackered ?, i know 5542 and 5526 have operated there but they are hired in remember, meanwhile if your 35006's owner, Toddington's ex double track mainline status is somewhat more suitable for an 8P than say Keighley with its branch gradients and curves.

    If everybody had the ideal loco's for their services then preservation would consist of about 200 2-6-4T's and would be a lot duller than it is.
     
  10. it could depend on the lay of the railway ! at the worth we use a wd 9f on 6 and she manages it perfectly but she works for it!
     
  11. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    The Bluebell found Port Line to be very economical considering its size
     
  12. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    I wonder if BR's claims that the MNs were heavy on coal was a fallacy? Bulleid certainly thought so, and went to question why quibble about the amount of coal you put in if you expect a lot from the engine? In that respect, I should think that once the firebox is filled, most classes can be economical on heritage lines, its just the wasted power potential that may be the issue. I recall reading an interview with Stan Symes somewhere that the MNs, in the right hands, could be very economical with both coal and water. This is probably better on the Bulleids thread, so any answers there...
     
  13. Orion

    Orion Well-Known Member

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    Isn't 'Isabel' the engine that belonged to the ICI Dyestuffs Division in the 1960s. Nice engine had been previously called 'The Lady Armagale'.

    Regards
     
  14. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    These were two different locos, both worked at ICI Blackley.
    They were put up for sale together in I think 1969 & our loco group in Liverpool had a bid accepted by ICI. All we had to do was hand over the cash & move them. Then our proposed shed fell through & we had to back out of the deal.

    Bob.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The Lady Armadale is on the SVR and is usually masqueradiing as Thomas. It was originally Manchester Ship Canal No.14 'St Johns'.
     
  16. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    Hawthorn Leslie 0-6-0ST "Isabel" (works no 3437) was built at Forth Works, Newcastle in 1919. For 50 years it worked at the ICI Brackley Dyestuffs factory near Manchester. In 1968 it was purchased and moved to the Keighley and Worth Valley. In 1971 it moved to Radstock where it was steamed in 1972. It moved from Radstock to the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust site at Washford on the West Somerset Railway aroung 1976. It was overhauleded there and returned to service around 2005. It was sold on to Ken Ryder in 2007 and moved to the Cambrian. http://www.sdrt.org.uk/trust/history/radstock_images/13.jpg
     
  17. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    The original "The Lady Armaghdale" was a sister loco to Isabel, was damaged in an accident and withdrawn, so when Brackley acquired the Hunslet 0-6-0T, it took the name of the withdrawn Hawthorn Leslie.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I suspect on most preserved lines there are two factors undiscussed here that make at least as much difference as any notional efficiency differences between, for example, a Hall and a Standard.

    The first is the quality of the fireman. If the Bluebell is any guide, we have everything between ex-BR fireman with loads of experience all the way to a cleaner on his or her first firing trip. Clearly there is a lot of difference betwen how much coal is burnt per trip (and how much blowing off occurs!) between those extremes.

    Secondly, a lot of the heat loss occurs in heating a cold engine up to working temperature. So if you only use your engine at weekends and then let it cool down through the week, when you average the amount of coal burnt per revenue-earning mile, it will be more than if you can keep the engine running for a longer period of time between cool downs. This effect will be magnified for a large engine; if they are used every day they will keep their heat better than a small engine overnight, but if you once let them get cold - such as would happen if you only ran them at weekends - then on the Saturday morning, you'll burn a lot of coal getting them warm in the first place, even if you discount what's burnt in the Friday afternoon warming fire.

    I'd suspect those factors make far more difference to efficiency on a preserved line than any theoretical discussion about degrees of superheat, boiler pressure, heating surface, valve events or any similar arcana that notionally lead to thermal efficiency. Of course, if you can use your engine with consisitent quality crews and for an extended periods of time, those considerations become more important.

    Tom
     
  19. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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  20. HY_4273

    HY_4273 New Member

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    Hey Christopher,

    Thanks for sharing the link, but I must inform you that those words do not represent a formal statement - the webmaster of that unofficial news channel has merely lifted it from another source. Anyway, I digress..

    As perhaps would be expected, news of the sale of Mr Ken Ryder's heritage railway rolling stock has provoked an onslaught from those attempting to mimmic Dad's Army character Fraser - "We're doomed, doomed" lol ;)

    On a serious note, I can categorically assure you that it has not come as a result of there being a 'falling out among the Cambrians'. ..Or to use another Fraser-ism, any such speculation is "Rubbish!" :)

    If anything, the Cambrian Heritage Railways project is the most advanced it has ever been. You may care to read the Autumn 2009 news update on the CRS website at http://www.cambrianrailwayssociety.co.uk/news/news.html . You may also be interested in the press release at http://www.cambrianrailwayssociety.co.uk/pressreleases/pressreleases.html . The latter generated a fair amount of coverage across the railway press, even if it is unfortunate that it did not make it into the news pages of one of the popular publications.

    To summarise, members of the Cambrian Railways Society (CRS) and Cambrian Railways Trust (CRT) voted at their respective EGMs for the formation of an umbrella body called 'Cambrian Heritage Railways'. The latter has formalised something that has been going on quietly for some time - a strong working relationship. Regular passenger trains are expected to return to the middle of Oswestry this year. Volunteers have worked hard to clear the line of vegetation and rubbish, while work to restore the trackwork to operational condition has now commenced.

    Things are not standing still at CHR Llynclys (Cambrian Railways Trust site) either. Physical work has also started today on the construction of a GWR-style halt at Pen y Garreg Lane, which will allow passengers to stretch their legs at the opposite end of the running line for the first time. Visitors will be able to walk down to the Montgomery canal and explore the myraid of history and nature that forms the Llanymynech Heritage Trail, with its restored section of waterway & boat trips, limekilns and tramway remains - and stunning views from the hill top.

    A further indication of the way the project is progressing can be seen in the fact that a CHR newsletter/magazine is currently in production - i.e. a joint publication :)

    Far from being a sudden move, Ken Ryder has not been chairman of the CRT for coming for two years. His place was taken by Henry Thomas, a very knowledgeable down to earth gentleman who lives locally. Mr Ryder is retiring - there is nothing sinister in this matter.

    While it is not necessarily my place to comment on behalf of Mr Ryder, credit where it's due, his hard work at Llynclys is there for all to see. With the greatest of respects, he is no spring chicken - to travel from Hull to the Welsh border every fortnight would take it of the best of us I'm sure.. I also understand he is to continue volunteering.

    After all, while I am not implying that it is the case in this instance, it must be remembered that the matter is something that can and will inevitably always happen as far as privately owned rolling stock is concerned. It could be argued that nobody lives forever and that their financial cirucumastances will remain constant. Matters like retirement, death, family and divorce to name but four could result in such a situation arising.

    On a final note, and at the risk of sounding funny, it is often human nature that one is interested in scandal/bad news yet the same cannot always be said of positive news. As a journalist by profession, I try to ensure our weekly newspages are balanced, yet the same cannot be said for my counterparts at other publications. Hey ho..

    Hope this helps :)

    Gareth Evans,
    Press officer, Cambrian Heritage Railways, Oswestry
     

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