If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

567 Victorian 4-4-0 New Build

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Flying Phil, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well there has been enough going on behind the scenes....so I do hope the next newsletter is very encouraging! We did look at the driving wheels in conjunction with the Churchward County Group, the big problem was the center boss detail of theirs was nearly twice as big as 567. So no, not driving wheel pattern. The CNC machine cut all this in 3 working days out of dense engineering plywood - We should have credited Dave at General Patterns Ltd with the pic.
     
  2. J Rob't Harrison

    J Rob't Harrison New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stafford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I thought the radius looked too large for a bogie wheel boss (although knowing how canny photographers can be....). My thought was that it's the bogie bolster.
     
  3. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Keep thinking on - or await the newsletter/web post
     
  4. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Working on the design of the Vacuum Brake System, and now looking at a very small vital component to ensure things work correctly. I am contacting the vast web of Knowledge out there - requesting assistance.....

    I was given a batch of SAR drawings that has a detail of a suitable Drip Trap - thatn however, unfortunately uses a 17/32" dia brass ball - which is non existent in UK , but is available in bulk from the USA. Our Chief Engineer has advised me that there is a Heritage supply that uses a synthetic rubber ball. Anyone got info on this assembly - we will need 3 or 4 for the system?
     
  5. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Could you not modify the design to take 1/2" or 15mm brass balls available here https://www.ballandrollerstore.com/brass-ball-bearings/ Have you considered 1/2" stainless balls? If you need to go slightly larger than 17/32" rather than smaller 14mm stainless ones are readily available in the UK in quantities as low as 1.
    Ray.
     
    weltrol and clinker like this.
  6. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes Ray, I had found these balls you kindly noted, but the concern that I have is the Drip Trap forms part of a Safety Critical System. The use of a proven assembly is accepted by the ORR & Insurers (we are not going Main Line), but our Technical Construction file must contain valid data as to the new or revised design. It is easier to track down this Heritage Component than going through proving tests for a modified design.
     
    jnc likes this.
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,871
    Likes Received:
    2,572
    Wouldn't a rubber ball be just as much a "new or revised design"?
     
    jnc likes this.
  8. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,775
    Likes Received:
    5,586
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    With all due respect, I think you need to get real on this. These things happen all the time and minor changes such as this have little consequence. I bet, if you bought a drip valve from south coast steam, they would modify to suit the available materials, whethwer it was going to stainless steel or the nearest metric equivalent.

    the ORR will have no interest with this. The only person who might have a passing interest is your ICP and I'm sure that an e-mail to them would result in a letter of no objection.
     
    2392, jnc and 43729 like this.
  9. 60044

    60044 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    515
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Alternatively, if the correct size of brass ball is freely available in the USA, what's the problem? Fedex is your friend! (other couriers are available....).

    As a matter of interest, why does a vacuum system need drip valves? Won't any water vapour would be removed along with the air?
     
    jnc likes this.
  10. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The reason for a drip valve in the Vacuum Brake pipework is to drain condensation that develops when the system is not in use. They are attached at the low point(s) in the system. All air has moisture content - when the pipework is cooler than the air that was admitted into the system when the brake was last applied will condense. OK we are not talking about a bucket load of water, but water equals a corrosion potential and rust which has the potential to build up in critical areas....
    The ORR has an oversight on all motive power new builds, Main Line or Heritage - mostly no problem - but IF... then you need that Technical Construction File. Of course, if you are going Main line you pay a shed load of cash to a third party (VAB) that reviews everything and issues a bit of paper... 567 is not going Main Line - Heritage use only - hence NO VAB charges, therefore a lower build cost.
    Steve, thank you for pointing me in the direction of South Coast Steam of Portland - Barry Gambles tells me they offer the BR Design Drip Trap - so the National Preservation grape-vine works again.
     
  11. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    1,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    NP triumphs again!....but I was going to suggest that somebody going to the US could bring a packet of balls back....
     
    Monkey Magic and jnc like this.
  12. 43729

    43729 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    157
    I can show you several railways and locos that use rubber balls. I can even show you the kids shop to buy them from....

    I don't want to sound rude, but there is an awful lot more loco to build before this becomes an issue.
     
  13. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Phil, we already got someone to bring back the Boiler Blowdown valve in his luggage! Southern Steam do the complete assembly - just screw into the pipework. We do try to do things in-house, but a serious shortage of volunteers with skills is an issue to any project like this.
    As for it not being an issue at this time 43729 - we do not have the luxury of having off the shelf drawings to work too - just the one G.A. What does that mean/ It means someone has to plan ahead and design how everything goes together, (see previous post re-engineers save projects money by designing). We need to know where to source the material, locate suitable sub-contractors where we don't have the ability to create the part - that has been my job since 2013 - so drip traps will be screwed in in several years time, but I will buy them and store them so we have them in stock for when somebody points to a hole in the pipework and asks what goes there - THINK AHEA^d
     
  14. mikehartuk

    mikehartuk New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    111
    In my view my good friend Steve is spot on in his analysis. New vacuum brake pipe system condensate drain valves are readily available and those I use (seen here pictured sat in front of a drivers vacuum brake valve) not particular expensive and this version are available from Martyn Ashworth. And, if anyone does feel IMG_0553a.JPG a pressing need for a risk assessment I suggest that would say. Risk = Drain valve leeks. Out-turn = Loss of vacuum so the brakes come on! Much the same fail safe nuisance type of out-turn as if such as a split appears in a rubber train pipe vacuum hose. In any event these drain valves work very well and in my experience dont tend to leak! Mike
     
  15. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Chartered Engineer
    Location:
    Leicestershire and South Cote d'Armor, Brittany
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Risk assessment comments noted - but nobody likes a train stopped in section full of passengers.... Mike, those Drain Traps by Martyn Ashworth are a good example of functional design - what do they cost and what is the mounting thread? Thanks for taking the time to send the pic.
     

Share This Page