If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

567 Victorian 4-4-0 New Build

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Flying Phil, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    608
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ..and you don't have to be a member of Farcebook to view it either....
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/GCR567Loco/
    ..'cos I'm not, and can look at it!
     
  2. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks for that link Johann. It is good to see some new people joining the project......momentum is building despite the current C19 situation.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  3. J Rob't Harrison

    J Rob't Harrison New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    122
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stafford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Lots of positives in the newsletter, the impression I get is that we're gearing up for another big push forward (like when the frames arrived in 2018). I must admit to a degree of curiosity what the next tranche of sponsorship components will be.
     
  4. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,625
    Likes Received:
    1,623
    Location:
    Nantwich, Cheshire
    Out of interest, does the project have a projected time scale for completion. At its current rate of income (that you can see online) and the projected Costs of 400k (personally I think this is way too low and that it will cost more) it will take around 25-30 years. Does this sort of thing get mentioned at all in discussions, and is it acceptable within the membership? Without knowing the age of the members/donors, its difficult to know if they will be around to actually see what they are paying for? And does this get explained to them so that they know the time scales involved? It's a question I have for 75% of the new build groups tbh.
     
    BrightonBaltic and MellishR like this.
  5. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    608
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    At last years AGM (Sept 19), I got the impression that the rate of progress would be accelerating over the next couple of years with, hopefully, a rolling chassis being completed by the end of that time period. A number of key items for the chassis have already been sponsored, but have not yet been manufactured - eg the drag boxes. The current situation has basically stopped physical manufacturing work at Ruddington, but whether there is an opportunity to put some of this work out to contractors, once the situation starts easing, has yet to be seen. Drawings/specifications for items like the smokebox/splashers etc were mentioned as being close to be finalised and may form part of the next batch of items to go out for sponsorship.
    If money comes in to sponsor items, I can see that contracts for some work are going to have to be put out to other places, as the workforce at Ruddington is limited in what it can do with the volunteers/space available.
    The problem of space at Ruddington and the lack of covered acommodation once the frames need to be aligned and the various parts being fitted needs to be addressed as well, in my opinion, having heard mutterings from other groups based there about such things for their own projects...
    If the money continues to come in for the project, at hopefully an increasing rate once physical progress is seen to be made, then the time to complete the job will be shortened considerably. They don't seem to have problems with specific components being sponsored at the moment from amongst the group, over and above the £5.67 standing order per month from supporters.
     
  6. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Gav 106 makes good points and "yes" they are discussed. The cost is low because the boiler is a very simple design and non superheated. The cylinder block exists - Ex industrial with other industrial parts being a common design with 567. It is not going on the mainline.
    However I do think the cost will go up, but to around £500K, which is achievable, especially as more tangible progress is seen as Johann says. In steam by 2026 unlikely, but before 2028......... Quite possibly!
     
  7. 43729

    43729 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    157
    Gav, I have noticed that finance of new builds interests you. Please remember that not every group has the same need for finance that the patriot does.

    Not going mainline with your engines mean you do not require as much finance.

    Groups that mainly consist of engineers do not require as much finance.

    Groups that dont make mistakes that require repeating work already paid for do not require as much finance.

    It is non sensical to suggest that group x made £xx this year so it will take xxx to finish.

    Progress will never be linear. But neither will interest. If these groups get to the point they have built half an engine without boring everyone to tears with repeated appeals for money then come the time for a big final push people may be more likely to dig deep.
     
  8. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,514
    Likes Received:
    12,674
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ouch!!
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18,865
    Likes Received:
    32,490
    Location:
    21C102
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    On that point: the team constructing "Beachy Head" would I am sure state that the single best investment they made was to fund and construct a building in which to build the loco. That was built in 2005/6, largely before any significant construction work on new material was undertaken. (The delivery of the main frames was deliberately delayed until they could be installed directly in the new building). The value of that investment has been repaid many times over in terms of having an all-year-round dry and secure working environment. From the railway's point of view, the building also remains as an asset when construction is completed.

    See https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/atlantic/latest_dec05.html and https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/atlantic/latest_06.html

    Tom
     
  10. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    608
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There does appear to be a precedent for having a building for a specific group at Ruddington, as the 125 Group are currently raising funds for their own building there (and have raised about 90% of it so far), so it is possible that the 567 Group could have one, assuming that was deemed to be a priority.
    I do know what the cost of the recent workshop extension at Mountsorrel was (or at least all the metalwork), so it is a good investment. I've worked outside in all weathers on restoring road vehicles in the past, so certainly understand the benefits of a roof over your head!
     
  11. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,514
    Likes Received:
    12,674
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Also on the GWSR the new-build Churchward county is paying for an extension to the steam shed where it can live during construction, and at the end of it we get a bigger shed.
     
    Bluenosejohn and ross like this.
  12. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Which is probably a much better bet than the County...
    (Teasing)

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
     
  13. J Rob't Harrison

    J Rob't Harrison New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    122
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stafford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Going back through the last page or so of posts...

    1) I've never understood why there's the need to be disparaging of the subjects of other newbuild projects, or why people choose to support them. Some people want a 47xx, others want a Patriot, still others want a pre-1900 4-4-0. Different strokes, that's all, if we all wanted the same thing things would get very boring very quickly.
    2) I'm 33 and, I believe, one of the younger members of the group.
    3) As far as steam locomotives are concerned, 567 is a simple machine. No superheater, none of the later 1920s/ 30s/ 40s developments to add to the cost.
    4) Bluntly it will take as long as it takes to complete, if you sign up to the group you sign up to pay £5.67 a month for 10 years. Now if at the end of that 10 years 567 is not completed others can do as they wish but so as I'm concerned I'll carry on donating. I'm struggling to think of another standard gauge preserved line where one day you will be able to turn up and ride a train of the original carriages to have run on the line hauled by at least a replica ofone of the original locos to have run on it too.
    5) Bear in mind this is not a millionaire's club project. The appeals made by certain other groups along the lines of 'we're looking for say 100 people to give £1000 each for wheels/ tender/ boiler/ whatever' might get results quicker but the takeaway for me is one of financial snobbery, 'if you can't give £1000 we don't want to know'. A couple of groups I might otherwise have considered supporting I now consider have utterly alienated me by going down that route.
     
  14. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Nice to see that the 567 website has been updated with quite a lot of positive news.
     
  15. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,845
    Likes Received:
    1,431
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I thought that was not the case. I understood, from some colleagues who volunteer in the loco department, (currently not of course!) that the County would not be built at Toddington. At the moment its frames etc are at Tyseley and they are starting to amass some of the parts they need. Perhaps things have changed. Some more good news about the GCR 4-4-0.
     
  16. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Nice to see positive discussion on this page... I have not been on this thread before, but I would like to comment - very positively, that behind the scenes much Engineering and Design work is progressing... Well, I for one, being self isolating to avoid this damn virus, am not twiddling my thumbs - I am the Design Engineer on this project and I am issuing drawings for review and emailing many potential suppliers (some working, some working from home) to obtain budget pricing.
    The situation is going to be very interesting in the next few months with material purchase orders being issued for a whole range of parts - some big, some small - but it will be the Supporters who are paying £5.67 a month who must be told first.
    Now to the reason for my post... Help required. Design layout work does require information - in this case the buffer beam mounted steam heating cock... Yes I know it is not required today, but I am thinking a few years ahead. Firstly, does anyone have a drawing of this valve? Probably not... Got one I can take to bits, also a slim chance.
    Why... there are several 'New Builds' that have some mutual self help objectives... And they ALL need a pair of these - how many are required (there are even rumors that some Diesels (I know I should not mention them) are going to fit steam heating boilers. It should be possible to get together a reasonable batch quantity so that pattern costs could be shared and greatly reduced. Some groups would want the finished part, others, like our 567 project would prefer a set of castings to minimise costs - very important - we have not got millions to throw at it!
    I would welcome feedback on this - if positive there is a whole bag of other parts we (and others) will require over the next few years. Keep safe, Regards, Barry
     
  17. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Hi Barry, assuming you cannot access extant locos, and at the risk of teaching you to suck eggs, there seem to be a number of drawings in the NRM drawing lists of steam heat connections, although whether any give the details you want or are otherwise suitable, I am afraid I do not know. I, and I am sure a number of others on here, can let you have drawings of South African steam loco components if that is any use, e.g. drawings 376-379 for the 25NC are respectively of Steam heat hose coupling, steam heat pressure reducing valve, relief valve and elbow, steam heat reducing valve, and steam heat relief valve. You may not know that you need all those!;)
     
  18. Legrandanglais

    Legrandanglais New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes I am interested - our Group gets a better response from MOSI in Manchester (GCR Gorton Drawings) than the NRM - and Both are Shut at present. Ithink a lot of SAR equipment was either UK or German in origin.
    I got to drive a 25NC at De Arr in 1990 - The shed forman tried to tell me how to drive the beast - I pointed out that the boiler was full to the wisle - kicked the drain tap lever open, opened the regulator, slammed it shot - everyone had a sooty bath - he got of the footplate and left me to it! Learned to fire and drive on the GCR in the early '70s.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,180
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    PM sent. Incidentally, NRM Search engine is still open but they will currently only provide drawings that they already have electronic scans for.
     
  20. std tank

    std tank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    3,426
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Only the Copy Service at Search Engine is still available and, as you say, they can only supply pre-scanned drawings.
     

Share This Page