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5593 to be restored?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 60044, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. 007

    007 Member

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    Really don't see the point in this engine being restored, its not as if Galatea, Bahamas and Leander are not already all running. I wonder about Vintage Trains sometimes, they must have a cash pile! That said, its their engine and they are welcome to do it and I'm sure it will be great to see.
     
  2. mattspencer

    mattspencer Member

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    I suspect a Jubilee is more gauge friendly than a GWR loco so opens up more routes for them to operate over.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think it illustrates quite well why as a mainline steam operator you'd want a jubilee, they've proved themselves as capable, reliable, (relatively) gauge-friendly performers all over the place. You've got to view it not in context of what we've got nationally, but through the perspective of Vintage Trains, who don't currently have any jubilees running, and nothing nearly as gauge friendly. At a guess I'd think they'd quite like to run some tours along routes that their GWR locos don't fit.
     
  4. Davo

    Davo Member

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    Would definatly be nice to see all 4 preserved jubilees running seen as though next to the black 5,s there gauge friendly go almost anywhere on the railway network engines.
    Davo 56F
     
  5. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Four Jubilees and each one is different. If you applied that theory then how many Black 5s would we have
     
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  6. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    It's OK, you did!
     
  7. 007

    007 Member

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    It's not as if Bahamas has been rushed off its feet for work now has it? Galatea works for its living, Leander is rightly the Beets family loco and they want to keep it local, fair enough.

    If gauge friendly is such an issue now, why bother doing No.5080? Like I say, nothing against VT, but what with the Bloomer and mad ideas about mainlining that, and now launching an appeal for this engine too, along with the continual asking for funds makes me think they are spreading themselves thin and not getting a connected message across.
    They must have a big donor or cash pot somewhere, to restore this in time for 2022 in the middle of a pandemic when every heritage organisation is scrabbling for survival seems a bit of a luxury for VT to be honest. If they do have a sugar daddy, really good for them!

    Im sure it will be nice to see, but really, what's the point? A million pound restoration to run on the mainline 6-10 times a year, is it worth it? No.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  8. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Whatever might be said about VT, they certainly don't have money to burn. But they do have ambitious plans.
     
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  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Well what loco's rushed of its feet for mainline work at the moment? If VT feel they have work for it but you don't want to contribute then fair enough, but for some of us a nice big red un cantering around the Midlands is something some of us are looking forward to.
     
  10. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    By that logic we should basically have no mainline steam at all. And that would be a shame.

    Costly as mainline restorations are, they must feel it's worth it for the opportunities they get with them. And you may not think it's worth it, but evidently Tyseley do, and I daresay many others who donate to the appeal will agree with them.
     
  11. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    Don't be too concerned, it's not your £million and as Matt says, a nice red Jubilee cantering about will always be welcome
     
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  12. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Agreed, also VT plan to increase their offering, despite the Covid-19 situation that is still an aspiration on the cards, that means more motive power is required hence the restoration of 5593.
     
  13. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    Given the time involved in restoring engines I'd hope the Covid restrictions will be gone by the time Kolhapur's running.
     
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  14. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Given the claimed target finish date of 2022 one can reasonably expect a vaccine to be developed by then. Whether Covid is a disease that a vaccine can sufficiently control is another matter...
     
  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    If you applied that logic to steam locomotives on the mainline in general you wouldn't see any of the class 8Ps running at all. The economics of running a steam locomotive on the mainline are a question of balance between a large number of factors. Number of trips and bums on seats versus running costs (including pathing, crews, coal and water, and more).

    Example: we run Clan Line between 10 and 20 times a year. Any future overhaul is dependent on the work we do now and the money made from each railtours, potentially helped by or offset by other revenue streams. Is it only worth it to us to run Clan Line 6-10 times a year? If the 6-10 trips revenue earning potential is maximised and our costs minimised (mostly where volunteer labour is concerned) then yes.

    Is it worth it to our society's members to run Clan Line 6-10 times a year? Absolutely! They want to see '28 on the mainline doing the job she was built for. Do we by way of running the loco give the society's members impetus to donate to us to keep her going?

    Just looking at the cost of an overhaul doesn't take into account everything going on before and after it, and what the aim of the locomotive's owners is. Fundamentally, the economics of steam railways and mainline steam is going to change over the next few years. I see Covid-19 as a blip ultimately and it doesn't factor into my thinking for the future of our industry. However the price and availability of coal, metals, and labour will. We live in interesting times!
     
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  16. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    If you applied pure financial criteria to the running of mainline steam nothing would run. Spend half a million quid minimum on an overhaul run it for ten years in the knowledge that the next overhaul will cost even more. In the meantime a lot of rather odd people ( to the outside world) toil away getting hot and dirty, perhaps several times a month, keeping an ageing 150 tons of machinery in working order. I'm quite often asked the question; 'why do you do it?' My reply is always the same; 'if you have to ask that question you won't understand the answer.' Seeing Clan Line tackle Gomshall Bank or the three cylinder roar of a Jubilee over the S&C, that's why we do it.
     
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  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Absolutely John. I’m treasurer for the MNLPS for precisely that reason. I want to see ‘28 in steam on the mainline. I love what we do and what the loco means to people. No doubt same criteria applies to 5593 too.
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    To have one double chimney Jubilee in action on the main line is something that people have been waiting too long for. To have another - i.e. 5593 - may seem to be a luxury but that didn't stop a rash of A4s popping up. So good luck to Tyseley. And as for the argument that @007 mentioned up thread about the existing Jubilees out there then you have to understand the differences between single and double chimney locos. There is a world of difference between 5029 and 5043, for example.
     
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  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Double chimney?
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You are just so polite! Why on earth I was thinking that 5593 had a double chimney has to be put down to not having seen it for so long that I had forgotten what it looks like!

    So whilst I think that my views on double v single chimneys are valid, the argument for adding another Jubilee to the main line steam stable is less so, other than the fact that it will be a Midlands based loco with all that this offers rather than a north west based loco.
     

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