If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

5593 to be restored?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 60044, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. 007

    007 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    872
    Really don't see the point in this engine being restored, its not as if Galatea, Bahamas and Leander are not already all running. I wonder about Vintage Trains sometimes, they must have a cash pile! That said, its their engine and they are welcome to do it and I'm sure it will be great to see.
     
  2. mattspencer

    mattspencer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    625
    Location:
    Rugby
    I suspect a Jubilee is more gauge friendly than a GWR loco so opens up more routes for them to operate over.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,940
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think it illustrates quite well why as a mainline steam operator you'd want a jubilee, they've proved themselves as capable, reliable, (relatively) gauge-friendly performers all over the place. You've got to view it not in context of what we've got nationally, but through the perspective of Vintage Trains, who don't currently have any jubilees running, and nothing nearly as gauge friendly. At a guess I'd think they'd quite like to run some tours along routes that their GWR locos don't fit.
     
  4. Davo

    Davo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    634
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W yorkshire 56f
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would definatly be nice to see all 4 preserved jubilees running seen as though next to the black 5,s there gauge friendly go almost anywhere on the railway network engines.
    Davo 56F
     
  5. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Four Jubilees and each one is different. If you applied that theory then how many Black 5s would we have
     
    Matt37401 and Richard Roper like this.
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It's OK, you did!
     
  7. 007

    007 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    872
    It's not as if Bahamas has been rushed off its feet for work now has it? Galatea works for its living, Leander is rightly the Beets family loco and they want to keep it local, fair enough.

    If gauge friendly is such an issue now, why bother doing No.5080? Like I say, nothing against VT, but what with the Bloomer and mad ideas about mainlining that, and now launching an appeal for this engine too, along with the continual asking for funds makes me think they are spreading themselves thin and not getting a connected message across.
    They must have a big donor or cash pot somewhere, to restore this in time for 2022 in the middle of a pandemic when every heritage organisation is scrabbling for survival seems a bit of a luxury for VT to be honest. If they do have a sugar daddy, really good for them!

    Im sure it will be nice to see, but really, what's the point? A million pound restoration to run on the mainline 6-10 times a year, is it worth it? No.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  8. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    Whatever might be said about VT, they certainly don't have money to burn. But they do have ambitious plans.
     
    green five, Matt37401 and Johnb like this.
  9. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,327
    Likes Received:
    11,665
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well what loco's rushed of its feet for mainline work at the moment? If VT feel they have work for it but you don't want to contribute then fair enough, but for some of us a nice big red un cantering around the Midlands is something some of us are looking forward to.
     
  10. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    By that logic we should basically have no mainline steam at all. And that would be a shame.

    Costly as mainline restorations are, they must feel it's worth it for the opportunities they get with them. And you may not think it's worth it, but evidently Tyseley do, and I daresay many others who donate to the appeal will agree with them.
     
  11. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    7,941
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    Don't be too concerned, it's not your £million and as Matt says, a nice red Jubilee cantering about will always be welcome
     
    Davo, Bluenosejohn, Mick45305 and 3 others like this.
  12. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    Agreed, also VT plan to increase their offering, despite the Covid-19 situation that is still an aspiration on the cards, that means more motive power is required hence the restoration of 5593.
     
  13. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    657
    Location:
    9A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Given the time involved in restoring engines I'd hope the Covid restrictions will be gone by the time Kolhapur's running.
     
    Johnb and Greenway like this.
  14. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Given the claimed target finish date of 2022 one can reasonably expect a vaccine to be developed by then. Whether Covid is a disease that a vaccine can sufficiently control is another matter...
     
  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,591
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Asset Engineer (Signalling), MNLPS Treasurer
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If you applied that logic to steam locomotives on the mainline in general you wouldn't see any of the class 8Ps running at all. The economics of running a steam locomotive on the mainline are a question of balance between a large number of factors. Number of trips and bums on seats versus running costs (including pathing, crews, coal and water, and more).

    Example: we run Clan Line between 10 and 20 times a year. Any future overhaul is dependent on the work we do now and the money made from each railtours, potentially helped by or offset by other revenue streams. Is it only worth it to us to run Clan Line 6-10 times a year? If the 6-10 trips revenue earning potential is maximised and our costs minimised (mostly where volunteer labour is concerned) then yes.

    Is it worth it to our society's members to run Clan Line 6-10 times a year? Absolutely! They want to see '28 on the mainline doing the job she was built for. Do we by way of running the loco give the society's members impetus to donate to us to keep her going?

    Just looking at the cost of an overhaul doesn't take into account everything going on before and after it, and what the aim of the locomotive's owners is. Fundamentally, the economics of steam railways and mainline steam is going to change over the next few years. I see Covid-19 as a blip ultimately and it doesn't factor into my thinking for the future of our industry. However the price and availability of coal, metals, and labour will. We live in interesting times!
     
    Spinner, ragl, 35B and 10 others like this.
  16. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    14,315
    Likes Received:
    16,391
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    If you applied pure financial criteria to the running of mainline steam nothing would run. Spend half a million quid minimum on an overhaul run it for ten years in the knowledge that the next overhaul will cost even more. In the meantime a lot of rather odd people ( to the outside world) toil away getting hot and dirty, perhaps several times a month, keeping an ageing 150 tons of machinery in working order. I'm quite often asked the question; 'why do you do it?' My reply is always the same; 'if you have to ask that question you won't understand the answer.' Seeing Clan Line tackle Gomshall Bank or the three cylinder roar of a Jubilee over the S&C, that's why we do it.
     
    Spinner, andrewshimmin, ragl and 7 others like this.
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,591
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Asset Engineer (Signalling), MNLPS Treasurer
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Absolutely John. I’m treasurer for the MNLPS for precisely that reason. I want to see ‘28 in steam on the mainline. I love what we do and what the loco means to people. No doubt same criteria applies to 5593 too.
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,064
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    To have one double chimney Jubilee in action on the main line is something that people have been waiting too long for. To have another - i.e. 5593 - may seem to be a luxury but that didn't stop a rash of A4s popping up. So good luck to Tyseley. And as for the argument that @007 mentioned up thread about the existing Jubilees out there then you have to understand the differences between single and double chimney locos. There is a world of difference between 5029 and 5043, for example.
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.
  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Lecturer retired: Archivist of Stanier Mogul Fund
    Location:
    Wigan
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Double chimney?
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,064
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You are just so polite! Why on earth I was thinking that 5593 had a double chimney has to be put down to not having seen it for so long that I had forgotten what it looks like!

    So whilst I think that my views on double v single chimneys are valid, the argument for adding another Jubilee to the main line steam stable is less so, other than the fact that it will be a Midlands based loco with all that this offers rather than a north west based loco.
     

Share This Page