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5593 to be restored?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 60044, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. acorb

    acorb Member

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    Travelled Worcester to Hereford behind Kinlet Hall one freezing day in I think back end of 2000, and I believe the King has been that way, but now I think nearly all steam is banned from there now - where does the issue lie on this line? Seems to have 'shrunk' more than most!

    It is a lovely route and also could prove useful in some circular itenaries. Does it still retain its semaphore signals?
     
  2. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    John, it had nothing to do with the Civil Engineers' paranoria. Route restrictions were clearly laid down in the relevant Sectional Appendices, based on local weight restrictions and the local loading gauge envelope. Locos did on occasions inadvertantly traverse lines they were prohebited from. I think in the last decade of steam operation at least three 5Xs made their way down the Brighton line and were impounded on arrival, being sent home light engine at caution a few days later. I doubt it was a weight issue, althought it might have been. More likely it was due to platform/infrastructure issues. They were not barred from the SW Section of the Southern, but were from (?most of)the Central (Brighton) and SE Sections.

    The 5X may look like a Black 5 but dimentionally it is different. Condider the widespread use of Black 5s on the S&D. Now although 5Xs appeared almost daily at Bath off the Midland they never worked south from there over the S&D because the Sectional Appendix said no. I understand that the first obstacle they would encounter, had one been sent that way, would be Coombe Down and Devonshire Tunnels, followed by the platform at Midford - and that is just in the first five miles.

    Peter
     
  3. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Likewise the Midland Compounds were barred from the S&D due to their width across the cylinders.

    Weight was only one issue in route restrictions, so too was width, height, and throw over on curves. This last banned Stanier Pacifics from using crossovers between platforms although allowed through the platforms on the running lines..
     
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  4. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I know but it just seemed that the Southern seemed to have more restrictions than anywhere else. The most serious breach I saw was around 1962 when I went to Holborn Viaduct to catch a train to New Beckenham. A Hither Green N had arrived with a parcels train. I caught one side of a telephone call by the station foreman: ' I thought Woolwich's weren't allowed over Blackfriars Bridge.' Having obviously got the reply that no they certainly weren't, it was, 'well I've got one here so what do you want to do?' I never did find out what happened. The largest locos allowed were the small 4-4-0s which is why the much photographed 07.24 London Bridge - Ramsgate always had one as it started from Holborn Viaduct as a parcels train.
     
  5. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Sorry, I seem to be argueing alot these days, but Compounds were not barred from the S&D. They are included in the load limit table in Peter Smith's "Footplate over the Mendips" and in the same book is a photo of N0 1046 "which saw service on the S&D during the last war, pulling away from Broadstone with the 5.15 pm Bournemouth West- Bath on 5th June 1940". But their use was fairly rare on the line.

    It should be noted however that all outside cylindered GW locos were barred from the S&D main line for this reason. although inside cylindered ones (pannier tanks and 2251 class 0-6-0s) were fine.

    Peter
     
  6. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Argue away, we need to get things right, but perhaps it was at an earlier time and later lifted (a lot of restrictions were withdrawn over time). I definitely remember reading it, though. My thoughts were that it was hardly the ideal engine for the line anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  7. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Peter Smith agrees with your last point., exemplified by trials with No 1065 in Dec '24. Their use in early wartime did not last long once Southern 4-4-0s became available to ease the motive power problems on the line

    Peter
     
  8. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    A sign of things to come perhaps, with this shot of her hauling the CME of 21 March 1987 past Blea Moor. (scanned from a colour negative) Kolhapur-Blea Moor-CME-21 March 1987.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020 at 3:59 PM
  9. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    Lovely shot Sir! Happy memories of my youth, spent many happy hours patiently waiting for (usually late!) SLOA specials on the S&C in the '80s with my Mum and Dad as a teenager - I really must start getting back to the lineside more, I've missed it a lot in the intervening years (I'm 50 now!).
    My claim to fame is that myself and my Dad featured in a lovely shot of 71000 in 1991 at Blea Moor, we were sat atop the wall not far from the signal box... We ended up on a greetings card which was sold in loads of different places!

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020 at 8:44 PM
  10. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    Thank you Richard: that's a good memory for you to have
     
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  11. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    I have the card somewhere, I got it for my Dad's Birthday, it made his day!

    In fact, I've found the image, it's on the Duke of Gloucester Society's homepage, and is a Geoff Silcock shot. First photo on the site too! I am the lad in the middle, my Dad is on the wall to the right with his flat cap on.
    I was wrong about the date too, it was 1990 apparently... My memory is deserting me!
    https://www.dukeofgloucester.co.uk/

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020 at 8:49 PM
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  12. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    And I was watching from the support coach. It was September 1990 - 71000's first encounter with the S&C.

    JS
     
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  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Hi James, just out of interest whatever happened to the Dynometer car that ran behind the Duke during the early 1990's be interesting to know what happened to it. Could it be used again maybe?
     
  14. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    Good stuff James! 30 years ago, where does it go? Sadly my Dad passed away in 2011, I didn't get chance to take him back to the Railways in his last 10 years... I want to get back to the lineside though, and I'm sure my Dad will be at Horton, Ribblehead and Ais Gill chasing steam in spirit!

    Richard.
     
  15. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Carlisle, 30 September 1990.
    06-71000-Carlisle-30-Sept-1990-fbook.jpg
     
  16. J Shuttleworth

    J Shuttleworth Well-Known Member

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    Way off topic - at the time, it was owned by the then 71000 Chairman, Ron Mitchell, who wanted to reinstate as a dynomometer car, to demonstrate his company's electronic measuring instruments and compare with the originals. The load cells were put back into working order and they did register readings, on a couple of runs, but interest waned and no serious testing was done.

    The coach was used for a year or so as a sort of super support coach (it had a generator, kitchen, shower and spacious saloon area, so was very useful) but, after 71000 left Didcot it arrived with the loco at Carnforth and has been there ever since.

    JS
     
  17. Spinner

    Spinner New Member

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    And here's 5593 on its very last run prior to withdrawal and scrapping. It worked an enthusiast train to collect South Bulli No 2 for preservation.
     

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  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Cheers James we did drift a bit (as is per usual on here!) anyhow back to a nice big red 4-6-0!
     
  19. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Good! I was wondering when it acquired the trailing truck, wide firebox and Caprott1 gear!
     
  20. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Were you not aware of that secret experiment the LMS did just after WWII? ;)
     
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