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4555 Damage at South Devon?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Jimc, May 4, 2022.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm pleased that someone who actually does the job has said this.

    I get it completely that with modern traction there is a rule about stopping short and then moving forward the final few feet to couple up. I won't unpack the detail but I was somewhere on the main line recently when the loco returned to its train to couple up. The crew approached the stock as normal, regulated the speed down to less than walking pace and simply rolled onto the train in a continuous movement. A wave of the hand when the loco brake was confirmed as on and a crew member went below to couple up.

    To my mind it made absolute sense as the important point was that the loco was rolling, not under steam and therefore easier to control on the brake.
     
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  2. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    On the main line has it got something to do with the NR obsession with safety? No one is allowed to jump off of or onto a moving train so the loco has to stop for the fireman to get off and wave the driver forward.
     
  3. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Member

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    In main line terms it applies regardless - it applied to me and our drivers in So'ton Docks. It is, of course, a nonsense when the loco is a steamer, as I know well enough from shunting both on the Watercress Line and So'ton Docks (VSOE and the Jockpig).
    My point about someone seeing the driver back has no bearing on stopping and easing up, does it?
    Pat
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You'd think this was a simple solution but, no. The fireman (who also operates the ground frame at the seaward end of the station) now has to be on the loco whilst it is in motion. Therefore he can't signal it back. When the loco has come to a stand, the fireman has to get off, go to the ground frame, set the road then get back on the loco. The loco then moves about a 100 feet, the fireman gets off, goes to the ground frame and re-sets it then goes back to the loco so it can trundle off to the other end of the loop.
     
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  5. Biggles633

    Biggles633 New Member

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    Got to love a bit of thread drifting.

    Looking at the picture it appears only one side has been damaged.
    Which means one or the other was probably stationary at a fouling point.

     
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  6. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    That sounds daft to me
     
  7. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    You've missed the first bit of the scenario Steve - you know, where the poor fireman:( (sometimes me) has to get off the loco first to uncouple then climb back on for it to move back then...... You'd be on and off that loco like a jack-in-the-box. Please, don't give them ideas:eek: - especially daft ones as @Johnb says. It is not as if those stops have moved more than an inch in the last five years.

    Peter
     
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  8. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    First the original post and now the photo have disappeared from Facebook, and I haven't been able to find another image of the damage with a quick search. I wonder if the person who took the original image was being given hassle by his bosses. Its probably findable from cache, but it is copyright so I haven't tried.
     
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  9. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Still here https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/0...incident-involving-two-steam-locomotives.html
     
  10. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    Daft yes, but increasingly common that steam locos are required to have a second person on the footplate at all times the loco is in motion ,


    Jon
     
  11. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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  12. Wagoniester

    Wagoniester Member

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    Image looks like it was taken at the back of Tyseley loco works to me, so definitely an old one.
     
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  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think photo being credited to Vintage Trains might be a tiny giveaway. The original photo is still up on RM Web
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The 1950 BR rule book required the fireman to be on the footplate whenever a loco was moving on a running line. Subsequent rule books were post steam so no such requirement.
    I think the Bluebell use the 1950 rule book or did and used to enforce this rule. I’m sure Tom can give further and better particulars.
     
  15. ross

    ross Member

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    Anyone considered putting a doorbell camera inside a head/tail lamp chimney for the Whitby run-round. Apparently you can connect via bluetooth to a phone.
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Why? It’s not necessary. Crews know where to stop. It’s where things go wrong that problems arise and a camera wouldn’t have been of any benefit.
     
  17. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

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    Oh probably wouldn't stop it happening in the first place, but after it has there'll be 'lamp-cam' footage of the incident for everyone on Nat Pres. to enjoy picking apart and referring back to for years afterwards ;):Muted:
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Generally yes. The exception is at East Grinstead, where, if you have only a driver and fireman available, the fireman would operate the south end ground frame while the driver made the movements over the run round cross-over single-manned. Likewise the north end hand points, where in extremis the fireman would need to set the road and then reset back to normal after the loco has gone by, though normally there is a member of station staff available to operate those points; the station staff don't normally operate the ground frame though because of the need to keep the single line token in the possession of the loco crew.

    Tom
     
  19. Simon Smith

    Simon Smith New Member

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    Clearly not!!!
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    They know where they intend to stop but this discussion has shown hat it's hard for them to know exactly where they are. It's similar in principle to manoevering a car in a limited space where sonar and/or a camera tell you how far you are away from surrounding objects. A camera would supplement the existing arrangements.
    Or could the guard come to that end of the platform to give directions?
     

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