44901 going to gwsr.

It does beg the question, if a Turkish boiler is a better option than 44901's, why hasn't Riley cut out the middleman and got one from Turkey himself ?.

 

Because 44901 boiler is a better option for the said Black 5's (re firebox etc).

 

Mr Riley is evidently happy to repair the copper inner firebox from 44901, whereas reportedly the 44901 group feel happier repairing a steel inner firebox from a Turkish 8F.
A steel inner firebox that it does appear most likely was fitted in Turkey, not originally to the 8F in the UK before export.

Until there is a statement or confirmation from the 44901 group, we dont know if other factors come into play, ie the relative costs of the UK and Turkish units, and in what condition the Turkish unit is in. It might just be that they have bought cheaply, and secured a unit in relatively good order?

Will all become clear in due course, no doubt.

46118

 

Could it be the price paid for the black 5 boiler buys a complete 8f in Turkey ?
(A4 boiler was sold for circa £30k to JH, and it was reported these 8fs were a similar price).
I wonder what the Turkish Ambassador would make of it, in light of his visit to see his countries history restored in the UK, grant reccomendations for another one to come..and see it hacked up and the other one sold to Israel.

 

The Turkish Ambassador is probably more concerned with the thousands of Syrian refugees living in camps in Turkey near the border with Syria, and seeing what humanitarian aid can be found for them.

46118

 

Probably not, that would be Turkish Internal affairs.
His job is to represent his countries interests with the Uk on behalf of his government.
Though part of that may be to influence opinion from Turkey or pass UK representations on the subject of Syria.

 

You miss the point, by buying an existing Black 5 boiler means that its use on mainline registered Black 5's is straightforward due to it being a genuine component with grandfather rights. Using a modified 8f boiler from Turkey would cause a ruck of extra expense, heartache and paperwork.

 

I can't imagine too much of 45407's boiler dates back to 1967 by now though...

 

Oh, I think that there's a fair bit, but this is basically the 'grandad's axe' thing - it's had 3 new handles & 2 new heads over the years, but it's still 'grandad's axe'...

Mark

 

correct

 

3855: Not sure I do "miss the point", I never implied that Ian Riley was contemplating buying an 8F unit to modify for a main line Black 5, but had not done so because of "grandfather" rights. (An issue by the way that the "County" people will need to address when they go mainline, with a modified 8F boiler on their new build.)

As far as I am aware Ian has never, publicly at least, mentioned the "8F option" for a spare Black 5 boiler as such. ( unless in fairness you know different)

Anway, we are where we are, Ian has a spare Black 5 boiler to fettle, and hopefully the 44901 people have secured a decent steel firebox 8F unit to modify for 44901. It will be good when they can confirm where they are in this process, but to take a leaf out of the "Galatea" book, I am sure they will tell us when the time is right. Just perhaps at present the last thing they want regarding the "Turkey" negotiations, is random publicity.

46118

 

I am assuming that the "Riley" boiler is a 28 element one, wheras an 8F boiler is only a 21 element type.

 

Think there are important differences in batches of lms 5 boilers that make interchangeability difficult although not insurmountable. For example 44871 boiler would have to be modified to fit 45407 or the latter loco altered. Same applies to motion parts. Don't believe it's as simple as dropping a restored 44901 boiler into the frames of either. Or 45212 for that matter.

 

I don;t see any reason why the boilers of 44901, 44871 and 45407 are not interchangeble. They are all sloping throat plate boilers with the top feed on the taper barrel. 45212 has a straight throatplate boiler. This could go on the other two. However, if the stretcher between the frames, just in front of the firebox, has not been moved forward to accomodate sloping throat plate boilers, it can only be fitted with its present boiler. Ian could, of course, carry out this modification himself.

 

Grateful for the clarity, thanks std tank. Detail differences only in that case. I see also that 4901 is from the same build batch as 4871 in any case, Crewe 1945.

 

There may have been 842 Black 5's but the old adage 'all the same but no two are alike' is appropriate.

 

Mr Riley has confirmed that the condition of the boiler is 'encouraging' and that the 'boiler will fit straight into either 45407 or 44871 when repaired'.

 

Indeed I think "enthusiastic" sums up Mr Riley over his purchase. Boiler records show a new copper firebox was fitted in 1957, and monel metal stays fitted during two intermediate overhauls between 1957 and withdrawal in 1964.

Now, were's the news about the Turkish unit for 44901 please folks?

46118

 

Yes. The other 5's are I believe 24(?) which makes the 28 element version give's it that extra. 44932 is similar being from the same batch as far as I understand.

 

The 4901 boiler will clearly be a massive asset in that case either in rotation or replacement for a life expired unit.