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44901 going to gwsr.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Gav106, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    If so, then that is good news, but then why would the owners consider acquiring a different unit for the loco?
     
  2. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    I do hope they're not considering using an 8F boiler for the Class 5...
     
  3. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    No worse that cutting an 8F boiler to recreate a lost GWR class.....

    As a GWS Didcot member, bristolian, you must be sat there waiting for this most obvious response...!!!

    No hard feelings!
     
  4. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    None taken :).
     
  5. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Going back to post No 1...
    An 8f comes from Turkey to restore
    But instead it sells to Israel..
    so another can be bought in Turkey
    To take it's boiler for a black 5
    because the boiler from the black 5 has been sold on...

    If I have it right.. that will be..

    a Black 5 with an 8F boiler
    A spare Black 5 boiler in lancashire (arent 48518's frames their too)
    an 8f off gone to Israel
    another 1 to come from turkey for bits..

    I may be over simplifying this but wouldnt it have made sense if..

    they let the Black 5 keep it's boiler..
    dismantled the 8f from turkey for spares..
    use the saved shipping, vat etc etc fees for restoring it ?
    leave the other 8f in turkey (or let it go to Israel).

    I could understand if it were several groups.. but isnt this all the same crew ?

    It could always get more interesting.. what if the Turkish decide not to part with any more 8f's for spares...

    then it would be up Barry dock without a boiler ?
     
  6. 10640

    10640 New Member

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    In response to various people:

    Nickel-chrome steel is problematic to weld and as well as giving off poisonous fumes in the process. If my memory serves me correctly, when the MHR restored 45379 patches were fitted to the rear corners of the outer firebox in preference to a welded repair. Further reading of Rowledge & Reed (qv) reveals that the early LMS built Jubilees were equipped with boilers built in mild steel, nickel-chrome steel being used in the first North British Loco Co batch in 1934/5. The weight saving was 1.25 tons per loco.

    The dimensional differences which 46118 quotes from Haresnape would not require different flanging blocks for tubeplates. In practice, they probably amounted to the same thing.

    The grate areas for Jubilee, Black 5 and 8F are 31, 28.65 and 28.65 square feet respectively, while the firebox heating surfaces are 181.1, 171, 171.

    Hope that this information is of interest, but I haven't seen any concrete information to substantiate what is being said about the destianation of the boiler in question!

    David
     
  7. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Just bringing this to the top again, do we know anything further re 44901, and whether the story going around about it losing its boiler is credible?

    There is a website for this loco, which under "history" does mention it going to the GWSR for restoration, but when you click on "News" you get a strange page of foreign language text that appears to have nothing to do with the loco. Clicking on the home page you get a site down for maintenance message. Strange....

    46118
     
  8. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Per The Works, the boiler is going to Ian Riley as a spare for his Black 5s. No reason to doubt this, as it came from the man himself.

    Mark
     
  9. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Well, according to Ian Riley on another forum yesterday:

    Our intrepid 'away team' are off to Barry this weekend to 'free' the boiler from the frames of 44901.

    I would have preffered to secure the whole locomotive, but the boiler on its own will prove to be most usefull to speed along any down-time with our fives due to boiler issues and planned maintenance.


    That seems to me to be authorative!
     
  10. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Yes, you have both just beaten me to it with that news! Still appears strange that the new owners were happy to sell on 44901's boiler to Mr Riley. Maybe Ian feels he has the expertise to repair that unit, and the new owners of 44901 after technical advice see fitting an 8F unit --in better condition--from Turkey as an easier option.... Or not, am I missing something?
     
  11. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Well I hope for their sake that there is an 8F boiler available in Trurkey - they'll be stuffed if there isn't!
     
  12. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    For them to be confident enough to sell this boiler on the deal to get the turkish boiler must be pretty much signed sealed and must soon be delivered. My understanding is that this is where the second wheelset for the patriot is coming. Possibly a swap with 8f at todd if the tyres need doing. And obviously they already have the experience with steel fireboxes and from what I have been told they prefer them.
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Maybe a boiler for the new frames mooted by Riley's some time back.
     
  14. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    And spare cylinders.. maybe he's planning a new build black 5 ?
     
  15. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Is this the "Super5" with added umph. Haha
     
  16. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Apparently the 44901 group are happier--so the rumour goes--of working with a steel firebox rather than repairing a copper inner. If they have a steel firebox unit in Turkey, it raises the interesting question as to whether these wartime MOD-built 8F's were exported with steel inner fireboxes, or they were so fitted overseas?

    46118
     
  17. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it. Usually the War Dept. (or MoS) specified copper. I would guess this was a TCCD replacement. Ray.
     
  18. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Ray: Indeed my thoughts, and then you wonder if an overseas built steel firebox is to our standards.

    ( But in fairness to Mr Hosking and the 44901 group they could well have had the unit properly assessed by their UK boiler inspector. Mr Hosking is known for "doing the job properly".)

    46118
     
  19. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    probably more relevent would be bringing back the LMS patterns that TCDD have for the 8Fs... many of them would be very useful to have and are unlikely to be reused out there.
    A full set of patterns, for self sufficiency were supplied and it was reported a while back, many (if not all) still exist at the main TCDD workshops.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Aren't there issues replacing an original copper box with a steel one, though? I thought the staying pattern needed to be different, due to the different flexibility of copper and steel. Which suggests that if at some point a copper box was replaced with a steel one, you would ideally need to replace all the firebox outer as well with different drilling for all the stays.

    Tom
     

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