44901 going to gwsr.

I thought 8F and 5MT boilers were different?

 

As far as I know it is only the length of the front barrel that is different. An easy job to replace it.
Forgot about the plate thicknesses. Class 5s have thinner high tensile steel boiler plates. 8Fs have normal boiler plate.

 

I thought mike hoskin was getting loads of spares from turkey still?? Including a boiler, don't know about a tender. As this is where the wheelset for the unknown warrior was coming from?

 

This tender is now behind 48624.

 

GW tender chassis certainly DID end up at Briton Ferry - we recovered 3 GWR wheelsets & a pile of springs from there at the same time as the 38xx & 61xx cylinder blocks were recovered for 2857 (block now in use in that) & 4150 (block in store as a spare). I seem to recall that other groups also acquired some parts.

I always assumed these had come from Woodhams along with the ex SR & BR ones & this could account for the shortage of GWR tenders only partly offset for preservation by the availability of a number of ex GWR tenders purchased from BR departmental service long after their locos had gone for scrap.

 

Any update on this?

 

I'll have to dig out my copy of "Stanier 4-6-0s of the LMS" by J.F. Clay & J. Cliffe to get the full facts, but I've read somewhere long ago that the 8F boiler (type 3C) had more in common with the type 3B Jubilee boiler than with the class 5 boiler. I believe the Class 5s and Jubilees both used Nickel Steel plate for the boilers, and as far as I can remember the taper of the Jubilee boiler was sharper than that of the class 5.

I'll have a look for my Bibles over the next few days, they're all boxed up whilst I have a load of work done on my house.

Richard.

 

The latest issue of the SR has confirmed that all but the final pieces of paperwork have been completed and 44901 has indeed been bought by several members of the GWSR, including Mike Hoskin, the mastermind behind the turkish 8Fs.

Also most of the missing components, including valve gear and motion, have been acquired and several parts from a 8F still in Turkey, including a Stanier 4000 gallon tender, will be used to help restore this black beauty back to her former glory.

So it would seem the GWSR has got itself a real good 'un, though there appears to be a debate and possibility that they may use a 8F boiler, though they have yet to decide whether to do that or stick with the engine's own boiler.

 

Was still at Barry on Friday keeping 92245 company.
Anything happening with 92245 ?

Keith

 

Don't know about anyone else, but not overly fussed as long as it looks right and the only difference is plate thickness, I wonder how many people knew 4472 was running with an A4 boiler for years.

 

Why would they have two different boiler designs for such a similar type ?
Was this due to evolution or was one tailored to a specific purpose ?
Will it result in aBlack 4MT or Black 6MT for instance ?
Obviously Swindon made something stronger out of an 8F boiler on a 4-6-0 chassis, I did read some where there was a plan for a batch of halls to have a county boiler too.

 

Boiler reportedly acquired by Riley's. a different boiler will be used to restore 44901, according to latest Railway Herald.

 

Judging from the fuss that the NRM had to endure when they had the temerity to reunite the loco with the last remaining genuine A3 boiler, I'd say just about everyone in the western world!!

 

Sorry, not even a Black 5 and a half!

Although Black 5, Jubilee and 8F boilers are visually similar, they differ dimensionally. The 8F and Black 5 fireboxes are the same as near as makes no difference, but the 8F barrel is 1 foot shorter. The Jubilee barrel is the same length as the Black 5, but the firebox is bigger. In all three cases, there were variations within the classes: initially low superheat straight throatplate boilers without domes were used; from 1936, domed boilers with highter superheat and sloping throatplates were introduced. To add to the mix, many earlier boilers were fitted with domes and all with higher superheat as they passed through the works.

Some of this is evolutonary and some down to design and operational requirements. The Jubilees initially wouldn't steam. The power output was not affected by boiler developments or differences, but efficiency and effectiveness were improved. I don't have a dimensioned drawing of an 8F boiler, but suggest that the shorter length barrel was probably achieved in the parallel section at the front. If an 8F boiler were to be used on a Black 5, replacing the front section with a longer one may be required to make it fit (not unlike the GWS County boiler rebuild, which differs in being coned from front to back, without a parallel portion).

J W P Rowledge and Brian Reed tell the full story in The Stanier 4-6-0s of the LMS.

David

 

Re the question of boilers, Black 5 vs 8F, I only have the plan views shown in "Haresnape" to hand, so cannot comment on firebox width, but in terms of length, at frame level the Black 5 firebox is shown as 9ft 2 13/16th long, the 8F is 9ft 3 inches. Barrel length on the 5 is 12ft 10 1/8 inches long and the 8F 11 ft 10 1/8 inches. At the smokebox end the Black 5 barrel has a diameter of 4ft 11 11/16ths, and the 8F 5ft 0 inches in outside diameter. At the throatplate the 5's boiler diameter is 5ft 8 1/2 inches, and for the 8F 5ft 8 3/8 inches. Firebox grate area on the Black 5 was 28.7 sq ft, and on the 8F 28.6 sq ft.

The main visual and physical is that the 8F boiler barrel tapers over that one foot difference in length, but if a decent 8F firebox could be found in Turkey, then I suspect that replacing barrel plate is "relatively" straight foreward, at least compared with manufacturing a new Black 5 firebox.

Do we know at what stage is the project to recover 8F spares/component parts from Turkey?

 

The taper boiler barrel sections on the Class 5s and the 8Fs are similar dimensionally, except for metal thickness. The length difference is in the front parallel barrel sections. The Class 5 boiler is made of nickel chrome steel, wheras the 8F is made of normal boiler plate. The other major difference is in the superheating. There are various superheater configurations for the Class 5s, but I think I am correct in saying that new firebox and smokebox tubeplates would be required for any conversion from an 8F to a Class 5.

 

Thanks std tank. In the far corners of my memory I recall some time ago a comment that the boiler of 44901 had been surveyed, and it was this nickel crome steel material that displayed some cracking, and that was why the loco had been overlooked as a restoration project. Perhaps that thinner and presumably harder metal is more difficult to repair? I dont know, not something I claim any technical knowledge of.

I take your point about the taper sections of the barrel being similar on each type of boiler, I dont have good-enough broadside images to hand to compare the two, and in any event it might be that the cladding disguises the different parallel sections somewhat. Anyway as you say, the taper sections are similar, then it makes the job ( of possibly utilising an 8F boiler for a Black 5...) just that bit less difficult. Thanks for the info.

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