4472 What colour

Better paint her in NXEC livery then!

 

Lets get her finished first bearing in mind that her boiler alone will cost £1m according to HR!

 

Get DB Dampflokwerk Meiningen to make a new one.

 

If the NRM had, that extra £200,000 could have been spent on preserving something else for display or it could have gone to Green Arrow or Duchess of Hamilton or 2500 or the Midland Compoud...

 

A quite controversial article in the Yorkshire Press about FS - http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features ... 4912522.jp

Chris

 

And that dear friends is how it really is. No curse, jst a LOT of work to be done - and done right. I respect everyone's rights to have a go at us for the engine, but also I please simply ask for some respect to be given to Jim, Rod and the guys who are doing the job.

 

The interesting point is the concern about "central heating" repairs which are cheaper in the short term but create the long term problems which the NRM has decided MUST be solved once and for all.

Lineside rumour has always hinted that the Vickers overhaul at Barrow wasn't as thorough as many were led to believe at the time with suggestions that its poor performance afterwards indicated that something was amiss - but since the overhaul was done gratis the diplomatic solution was to say nowt and wait until the nexyt overhaul when any problems could be dealt with.

In fairness to the newspaper article it notes that the NRM hasn't apportioned blame but simply accepted the status quo and taken the brave decision to correct the faults now on the basis that "a stitch in time saves nine" with a view to the longer term ( i.e 30 year ) rather than the shorter term ( i.e. until next overhaul ) life of the exhibit.

Whilst congratulation to the NRM for its honesty and commitment one hopes that the critics will at least show reciprocity and "chuck their cash in" to a good cause.

 

now Anthony knows what i think about Fs but i will say good on them for doing a job right whilst i dont personally like her she needed sorting and is now in good hands

 

Very interesting article - a touch of 'tell the truth and shame the devil' me thinks!

Credit where credit is due to the NRM for doing a 'proper job' on the loco and I shall be putting my hand in my pocket later this week (my 4 year old saw Flying Scotsman on the telly last week when the appeal was launched and has drawn Mr Rees et al a picture (some instructions he called it..!) for putting 4472 back together as well as raiding his piggy bank...).

However, I do have one slight worry about the campaign to raise funds as I think the enthusiast fraternity may have become slightly disenchanted as far as 4472/ 60103 and the NRM is concerned due to the lack of vac brakes being refitted and (sorry, hate to mention it again....) the double chimney & smoke deflectors/ apple green combination (runs for cover).

I do hope I'm wrong although I would admit I personally would like to see some form of vacuum brakes back on the engine if not now, then at some point in the future so she can visit preserved railways again. Good luck to all at the NRM involved with both fund raising and the restoration.

 

Exactly - if the NRM want more money from enthusiasts to do the job 'properly', then surely fitting vacuum brakes has to be a part of that.

Chris

 

Can I "third" the "motion" to refit vacuum brakes. The custodians of a similar loco will tell you that it may have some very enjoyable spells of mainline running but i doubt if they have yet covered the extra costs of equipment needed for the mainline, and the bread and butter comes from preserved railways. Given that the NRM has locos that udnertake lucrative heritage line national tours, I can't understand why they seem to want to keep Scotsman as an exclusively mainline loco (and ensuring this was, I believe, a major reason the previous owners converted to pure air brake), available to ride behind only if you can afford a minimum of about £100 for a family - not really a "people's loco".

Even if they say "a heritage railway can hire air braked stock", surely they must realise that would mean a heritage railway would be either less likely to hire the loco, be willing to pay less for it if having to pay for coaches or not be able to hire a set of coaches unless the line is Network Rail connected!

 

This has been covered before on this thread. Let’s hope that the NRM read this thread and take note and just maybe the NRM will reinstate vacuum brakes. If they want people to donate money towards the cost of her rebuild surely the NMR must make her more accessible to everyone and not to the few people that can afford to pay for main line trips.

 

I had a conversation with someone from the NRM on this very subject today. He tells me that the removal of the vacuum brake equipment was total and it and substitution with air was done in such a way that it would be a major and expensive job to refit vacuum and with the present funding shortage, a non-starter. He also confirmed many of the horror stories referred to in the Yorkshire Post article.

 

Personally I like the concept of mainline only and that will, in my opinion make it a "peoples loco"

It needs to strertch its legs and impress observers the length and breadth of Britain... being restricted to 25 mph tootling up and down some backwater line would be almost criminal.

 

Perhaps at the next overhaul then, should be more reasonable to achieve by that time i.e. less money should be required to overhaul the locomotive providing that the NRM keep on top of the maintenance.

Regards,

Dan

 

Im normally a staunch supporter of the NRM but im afraid if they are going to put out statements saying that they need the extra money to make sure the overhaul is done properly, then thats exactly what they should do.

To me, it seems wrong to appeal to enthusiasts for money while depriving the heart of the preservation movement, lines like the SVR/WSR/NYMR, from using her. Consigning the 'people's engine' to premium priced mainline trips and sitting in the NRM is not what i thought saving her was all about.

Chris

 

Well, I could argue that the kit needed for mainline running, along with cerification, is very expensive and that refitting a vacuum brake would be less costly, so TPWS, OTMR and mainline certification should be left undone instead. I am not sure, but I would guess 4472 was withdrawn before the OTMR deadline so won't have been fitted at all with this, whilst certification will be needed a fresh and I suspect the TPWS installation may need major replacement (can't remember if that was done before the NRM bought it if you see why that is important!).

Typical mainline snobbery! I don't think lines carrying a couple of 100,000 plus passengers per annum (of which there are a good few) could be called "back-waters" - the busiest 4 heritage railways cariied just under 1 million people between them. How many travelled on mainline steam? (And I bet at least half of those who did travelled so on The Jacobite!) Mainline steam is increasing the preserve of the "Premier dining" market, very "corporate hospitality", not very "peoples' loco".

 

It's just my opinion and it's not snobbery, it's quite the opposite. You see, you do not need to be travelling behind the loco to be impressed by it. With any luck it will influence people who would not dream of going anywhere near a heritage railway.
This loco is special, it's an ambassador that belongs on the mainline with all the publicity and glitz that goes with it, just my personal viewpoint.

 

Well said sir, Surely it serves its purpose better for it to make (for example) 3 trips of 6 coaches with each punter paying £15 for the priveledge to a preserved railway where people can see it, photograph it, get on it's footplate and all that sort of thing, rather than take 9 coaches, of which 4 or 5 are 'premier dining', for a trip up and down the ECML at a speed where most people will get but a fleeting glimpse and many won't be able to get a ticket.

As to the myth that it would be better running around the country, if it worked a week at the West Somerset, a week at the Severn Valley, a week at the ELR, a week at Bo'ness, a week at the NYMR, a week at the Nene Valley and a week at the Mid Hants, thats a pretty big part of the country covered, indeed probably more than it would cover on mainline duties.

As to the comment about "back-waters", would you consider places within easy reach of Birmingham, Bristol, London, Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool, Plymouth, Southampton, Edinburgh and York "back-waters"? Very few lines are truly isolated from the rest of the world by means of either transport or distance, and those that are generally wouldn't be big enough to do hosting it justice anyway. Beancounter is right, Mark, it comes accross as snobbery in the extreme.

 

I may be many things Stepney, but a snob is not one of them.