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4468 Mallard

Discussion in 'National Railway Museum' started by 73129, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. PACIFIC POWER

    PACIFIC POWER New Member

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    Operating an A4 on the main line with side valences could present a problem in today's climate. If you needed to access the motion for lubrication or inspection during a run opening it would foul the loading gauge, it could even cause problems on shed at preparation and disposal. Bear in mind that everything has to conform to standard safety cases, however daft these regulations may sometimes appear.
     
  2. Johnny_Cash

    Johnny_Cash New Member

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    I fail to understand how much historical signficance can be found in a layer of paint. What exactly is a layer of paint on a steam locomotive going to yield in 50 years time? Not a lot in my opinion. The history of the individual steam locomotive is much better told through its design, working life and subsequent preservation. What colour it was in, where it was painted etc don't ring a bell for me. I can't see why future historians will thank us for saving a layer of paint on boiler cladding.
     
  3. Rumpole

    Rumpole Part of the furniture

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    Isn't the argument for the retention of Lode Star in its present condition not so much the paintwork, but the whole package of 'Swindon workmanship'?
     
  4. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Well-Known Member

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    Quite so - and remember the NRM is a Museum when all is said and done. You wouldn't be having this argument over a wooly mammoth skeleton or a pre-Raphaelite painting. Look at the collection in that way - well some of it at least. Then look up the definition of a museum:

    'Museums enable people to explore collections for inspiration, learning and enjoyment.

    'They are institutions that collect, safeguard and make accessible artefacts and specimens, which they hold in trust for society.'

    This definition includes art galleries with collections of works of art, as well as museums with historical collections of objects.'

    But then, we've been here before, haven't we? :-$
     
  5. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    The question is, do you really need both Caerphilly Castle and Lode Star preserved in this manner, particularly when the latter is in a worn out state and not typical of standard Swindon workmanship?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not one for jumping up and down demanding XYZ to be steamed at all costs, but neither am I one for applying a criteria without looking at the full picture first.

    But the real question is, on today's 21st century rail network, would a wooly mammoth still be in gauge?
     
  6. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not sure a a dead Mamoth has the ability to couple up to Mk1's \:D/

    I'd like to see Mallard restored but now's probably not the time, although in the far future, perhaps 2038 would be the time.
     
  7. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Another spin on this is context - while it would be great to see Lode Star out again it wouldn't quite look right in GW livery coupled up to umpteen maroon Mk1's on preserved lines. There is more justification for returning a loco to steam where it can be placed in a historical context -e.g Well Tank at Bodmin, City of Truro back on the Devon/Cornwall mainline 100 years on.

    it's no just about steaming the engine, but doing it where it can illustrate what it used to do before.

    Hence if you want to see Mallard again, wait for the Steam Railway 2038 appeal :-#
     
  8. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've been a strong advocate of right liveries to go with a certain lines stiock (would be BR in most cases) to create period train formations, but the logic you suggest would pretty much preclude anything withdrawn pre mid 50's from operating.
     
  9. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    erm...not really :-k

    my point was the NRM have lots of engines which they could choose to steam. The case for steaming each is different-there are lots of factors i.e has it been in steam before, what work is required.

    I believe that one of the criteria that swung the Well Tank was the fact that it would go back home (not having steamed for 40 years before) so in that sense context is very relevant-the NRM is not just about providing motive power for preserved lines, after all.

    The fact also remains that more and more lines are now introducing pre 1948 stock as well so there is more scope here for pre BR stuff.

    Didn't say that context was the only criteria, just that it can be relevant.

    Hence if you look at Mallard in context then it would be appropriate for it to steam in 2038, being the 100th anniversary. Naturally you would consider all the other factors, such as condition, any other A4's etc.
     
  10. Jeff Albiston

    Jeff Albiston Member

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    There was talk a long time ago about restoring 4468 in 2013 for its 75th anniversary but since then there's has been no more talk about restoring 4468 to runing condition.
     
  11. glastonrail

    glastonrail New Member

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    Now while the flaps on the A4's skirts are supposed to lift and swing round and up, there's nothing to stop a "cheat" occurring for practicality reasons and have them lifting/sliding out to get around that issue... ...

    You could even, if you so desired, keep the hinging set for periods when Mallard is not on the mainline and is on preserved lines/NRM.

    But then of course!! F*&$ing armchair PURISTS wouldn't have that, would they... ... ](*,)

    I personally think all locos in the NRM/National Collection should be runnable, whether they are regular runners or not is another question... ... :-k

    (slinks back into the shadows... ...) :smt080

    Dom Greenop
    DMR
     
  12. Bricky89

    Bricky89 Member

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    There was talk a long time ago about restoring 4468 in 2013 for its 75th anniversary but since then there's has been no more talk about restoring 4468 to runing condition.[/quote:34pgebsw]

    One thing which struck me about 2013, IF 4468 was restored for running on the mainline about a year earlier - how many travellers to the Olympics would like to travel there from London hauled by the fastest steam engine in the world?!

    That's my two pence on issue, being of the younger generation only seeing films of 4468 running in preservation it is something I would love to see. I reckon the valances will completely change the look of the loco when it's doing 75 on the ECML.
     
  13. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    One thing which struck me about 2013, IF 4468 was restored for running on the mainline about a year earlier - how many travellers to the Olympics would like to travel there from London hauled by the fastest steam engine in the world?!

    That's my two pence on issue, being of the younger generation only seeing films of 4468 running in preservation it is something I would love to see. I reckon the valances will completely change the look of the loco when it's doing 75 on the ECML.[/quote:3g44pjv9]

    if mallard was to be put back into steam and such a run was to be made, if you were to have two engines side by side, mallard and flying scotsman, how many would opt for flying scots man mind you it would be a nice thing to see two runs out of kings cross, and throw in tornado into the mix the two most wide known engines in the world, and the newest , but who would be able to tell the difference?
     
  14. richard_3672

    richard_3672 Member

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    Even though it's pipe dreams, and I've steered clear of this because of.. Saying about Mallard, Scotsman and Tornado at KX..

    What about Mallard at KX and a Duchess (if my memory serves me right) at Euston.. Race to Scotland like the days?

    Bear in mind, yes I know a race would be a no-no.. But two railtours from the same city ending in same city with the two main contenders for speed?

    Although Mallard no but another A4? May be talking s***e, but that's what a bit of booze does.
     
  15. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    I remember being on my Dad's shoulders at York station when I was about 4 (1989) watching Mallard and an HST. It was fascinating. Mallard is just one of those locomotives that carry a special aura about them.
     
  16. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    What about a rail tour with 4472 from Kings X to York then 4468 from York to Edinburgh and return to York and then 60163 from York back to Kings X.
    Now that would be a rail tour to consider going on.
     
  17. stepney60

    stepney60 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I still don't believe 4468 should be restored, as it does much more for the NRM parked in the Great Hall than it ever would out on the mainline (where, if we're honest, it would be run for the benefit of a minority of the enthusiast community), and it means less historical value for the future generations to appreciate. It's as much their heritage as it is mine, yours or anyone elses.
     
  18. sam w

    sam w New Member

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    I disagree. Just like Scotsman, Mallard is a national icon. I bet if you asked anyone in the street what steam loco holds the world record for top speed, they'd say Mallard. I asked my bro the other day if he'd fancy coming on a railtour with me to which he replied "Only if the engine is Mallard or Flying Scotsman". Therefore I think running it would benefit the entire country much in the same way that Tornado has.

    Perhaps nows not the time but theres not going to be 3 other A4's on the mainline for ever.

    And of course it couldn't be painted in any other way than Garter blue and with full valances, just like the 00 gauge model that most kids have on there model railways.
     
  19. planetpower

    planetpower Member

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    The thing thats always got me about Mallard is that it only ran for 5 years of its ticket or something like that, anyway it was only a short period of time can someone one clarify this? And the reasons behind this?
     
  20. Kerosene Castle

    Kerosene Castle Well-Known Member

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    It only had the bare minimum done on the boiler, in order to get a temporary ticket. It was based on a set number of steamings, although I think they ended up getting an extension. I understand they did quite a bit on the bottom end though - someone else will no doubt know the full facts.
     

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