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35028 Clan Line to Exeter - now 10/08/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by alastair, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. 46203

    46203 Member

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    46229 30.11.96 last day at work for driver Les Jackson. Les states that between Penrith and Carlisle the speedometer showed 100mph (twice!). Mike Notley gave Les a copy of his performance log, don't know if that agreed with the speedometer though.
     
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  2. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen New Member

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    Thanks - that's a bonus for me, then!
     
  3. kevinthecat

    kevinthecat New Member

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    I was on the ACE with Clan Line on Saturday and thoroughly enjoyed the trip. I would just like to record my appreciation to Sean Emmett for compiling the logs and providing some edhp calculations which are always interesting to see. I know compiling them is a time consuming task so hopefully Sean has enough steam left to complete the record back to Waterloo. I wouldn't like him to think nobody is interested!! I was also on the September 2017 ACE and concluded peak power output occurred on the ascent of Brewham - my calculation made the edhp around 2,200 IIRC, the data being supported by the noise from the front end which we didn't get more recently, not that I'm complaining as conditions were not ideal.
     
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  4. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Good to see more much-deserved praise - and from a new member - for Sean, and the considerable efforts he has invested in creating a definitive record of this superb outing. In my books, the material he produces - both the logs and the supporting detail - ranks in stature as the equivalent of the Parliamentary Hansard in our sphere of interest - contemporary steam performance on the main line. And as hard as I try to produce my own logs of those few outings that I get to participate in (Saturday's ACE being only the third this year), and to perfect my own skills in this area, I still find that I'm learning a tremendous amount by virtue of the benefit of being able to compare my best efforts with Sean's detailed tabulations.

    So, three things to look forward to now. Firstly, Sean's eagerly awaited third instalment chronicling the Bristol-Salisbury-Waterloo return. Then next up Gricer Don's coverage of the day's events and informed perspectives in a forthcoming issue (next but one?) of "Heritage Railway ". And finally, any morsels of intelligence from MNLPS/ UKRT that might enable us to glimpse the possibility of further outings with Clan Line that could be financially accessible to those mere mortals among us for whom travelling in steerage is as good as its ever going to get - and as good as it ever needs to be!!
     
  5. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Member

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    Not necessarily, I can think of a far more convenient place for it to stay around the North West which has a main line connection and can also bring some income to that railway also if it's timed right. At the end of the day it has to suit the society and rightly so but I'm sure it would be accommodated without any hesitation.
     
  6. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    So the concluding log from Bristol back to Waterloo.

    Plenty of padding in the schedule for the water stop at Bristol East Depot, so despite the 18 late arrival we left nearly 5 minutes early.

    A steady start out to Keynsham, the acceleration from 48 to 58 in 2 miles on Brunel's 4 foot in the mile (1:1,320) worth say 1,210 edhp. Signal stop at Dundas but a brisk run up the bank after Trowbridge. I make it 1:310 average from the Studley Road overbridge at 106m 32c to the Yarnbrook underbridge at 107 57c. If this is correct the acceleration from 51 to 58 mph in only 1.31 miles is worth around 1,800 edhp. This seems a bit too high?

    Another severe check at Hawkeridge Jn for a unit to depart Westbury, but did well to recover to 31 through the station and 37 afterwards. But slipped when the steeper grades started to bite. I make the grade from crossing over the avoiding line to the Upton Scudamore overbridge an average rise of 1:73 in 2.13 miles. The deceleration from 36 mph to 27 mph was worth around 1,400 edhp.

    Brisk run down the Wylye valley to Salisbury.

    A slow restart after the final water stop, but solid up Porton. On the steeper lower section I calculate 1,483 edhp on the 3.79 miles averaging 1:164 past the former Porton station. On the easier grades after Idmiston I calculate say 1,435 edhp for the 2.56 miles averaging 1:406 past Allington.

    The 75 limit prevents true ACE speeds through Andover, but the 3 mile rise at 1:178 past the former box (?) and path crossing at Enham brought speed down from 71 to a creditable 67, worth say 1,470 edhp.

    After that easy run out of Basingstoke anticipating the check from 18.50 Poole - Waterloo booked to turn out onto the up fast at Farnborough. From Woking there were a couple of temporary speed restrictions (TSRs) to 70 through Weybridge and 50 through Surbiton, then we were delayed by the signalling problems which shut the fast lines at Queenstown Road.

    Thanks again to all those who made this possible.

    Would be nice to have a crack at Waterloo - Salisbury in 80 minutes.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 12:10 AM
  7. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    @Sean Emmett - it might be a little high.

    We ran through Trowbridge at 50 and hit the Viaduct at 58 just less than 2 miles later. There is just under a mile of 1 in 187 after Trowbridge followed by a short level section and then a climb of 1 in 237 to the viaduct. If anything, an average gradient of 1 in 310 might be a little on the low side. My average of 1 in 290 with an average speed of 52 up the bank gives 1600 DBHP.
    That's still pretty decent though.
     
  8. No.7

    No.7 New Member

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    No it didn't agree, (I have a copy of the log), but it was still a very rapid run.
     
  9. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Thanks Al. Have re-checked the gradients and yes I had the level stretch 5 chains too long, so average gradient from Studley oberbridge to Yarnbrook re-assessed at 1:288. This pushes up the power output to 1,847 edhp (raw calc based on an acceleration from 51 to 58.).

    Have also done a calc from Trowbridge station and I get an average grade of 1:287. I made it 49 through Trowbridge so this gives me 1,658 edhp. If I change the start speed to 50 this reduces the acceleration component and I get an edhp of 1,595. Nice to know we were on the same train!

    Updated log attached with typo in the log itself corrected.
     

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  10. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Thanks Sean. I thought the best climb of the day was Semley as speed only declined slightly over the final mile from MP 99 (66.4 mph, to MP 100 (65.2 mph). Semley station is just over the top (65.7 mph). My calculation for the last mile is 2,075 edbh or 2,670 IHP, which would be the best of the day. Wayne told me he was using 230 lbs of steam which is full regulator and 27-30 % cut off. I think he increased the cut off for the last mile and I have asked him to confirm this.
     
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  11. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Fair point. I have done a further calc from Pythouse bridge (99m 53c) to the Old House Lane bridge (101m 02c), which saw speed fall from 67 to 65 over the 1.36 miles at 1:145, which gives me 1,887 edhp.
     
  12. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Correction my milepost readings were for 100 and 101
     
  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    is there any comparison charts done on the same routes between 35028, 35005 and 35018 be interesting to see what engine appears to be strongest, what drivers used as regards cut off etc did 35005 during its short main line life do Victoria to Salisbury, ? or any other routes all three have covered
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I have it on good authority that since the recent overhaul and further 'tuning' by the CME, Clan Line is now reckoned to be as powerful a loco as it has ever been. Some of her recent performances seem to confirm that - e.g. 490 tons gross on the Pullmans up from Stratford to Wilmcote.
     
  15. Arun Valley

    Arun Valley New Member

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    Atlantic Coast Express 2019

    Earlier this year l was musing to myself as to what plans the MNLPS had planned for their non-Pullman trips this year. A few days later the ACE (on the previous date) was announced, which subsequently became 10th August. My understanding of the advertised route is to avoid the potentially ponderous route via Reading and to use the South West Main Line and the West of England Line as much as possible, hence the need to use the “Great Way ‘Round” via Bristol to allow the train to pass Westbury heading South. Usually l am quite quick to book tickets for these tours, but on this occasion the noise and more importantly: the smell of a traction engine as it passed by the house when l was preparing the front door for painting reminded me that l really should book this trip.

    Anyway, to the day itself: due to engineering works closing my local line it started by car to Three Bridges and a trouble-free journey to Waterloo East, changing at London Bridge. During this the sun rose and shone which was very heartening. This was the first time l had changed at the rebuilt London Bridge station. After passing a little time at Waterloo 66057 brought the stock from Eastleigh (having collected 35028 at Battersea) into Platform 19 on time. Having plenty of time before departure we wandered up to the front to witness some major refuelling with sausage in rolls all round. On the way back to take our seats in Coach H l counted a load of 11 rather than the 12 l was expecting. l wonder if this was a nod to the train running in high summer.

    We were away on time. After slowing to pass Queenstown Road we transited Clapham Junction at 40 with a gradual acceleration to the mid-70s at Surbiton. I must admit that the scenery over the first 30-odd miles is not the most interesting; West becomes best in that regard. Hopefully those on the stoppers noticed something a little different overtook them. From 75 through Walton-on-Thames we slowed to pass Weybridge at 44. After an unexpected cross to the Slow (points failure) we arrived in Woking slightly late. We set off again with some measured acceleration, reaching a maximum between Fleet and Winchfield before slowing before Hook (45) to stop at Basingstoke at 09:06, leaving at 09:09 (4L). It appeared as there were a couple of no-shows in the carriage, as two seats remained unfilled. Before passing Worting Junction the Cross Country service to Bournemouth passed us. By Overton we were doing 60 and into the 70s at Whitchurch where we remained (with the exception of Grateley [68]) until slowing for the approach into Salisbury. Waiting for us was a brace of water tankers to replenish the tender.

    The train was away from Salisbury right time for the next stop at Gillingham for an up train to pass us. It gave those waiting for this something more interesting to look at while they waited. We departed Gillingham on time for the short hop to Yeovil Junction. The tunnel was entered in the mid 40s and up to 70 plus before slowing for the approach to Templecombe. I am not sure if it was due to the wind being from he West that it was generally easy to hear 35028 chattering at the head of the train but l could only discern one occasion when slippage occurred which was on the acceleration (climb) before Templecombe (passed at 22). After that we really got ‘motoring’, charging through Sherborne at 77 before slowing for Yeovil Junction to take on some more water kindly supplied by the Railway Centre there.

    We left Yeovil Junction on time, Crewkerne was passed at a slowing 56 then speed rose to the mid 70s before the brakes came on for what we thought was the pathing / passing stop at Chard Down Loop. Instead, the brakes were released and we passed the site of Chard Junction at about 40. There was a long whistle in this area; l hoped that there was not anyone where they should not have been, but there is a note in the Sectional Appendix to sound the horn from the whistle board continuously until a foot crossing. If the trains were running as the 2017 version of the ACE there would be an Up train which would need to pass us then a down train to overtake, so to allow this we stopped at Axminster. The Up train came and went – as did a heavy rain shower – but to my surprise the signal cleared for us (although there were a few moments until we set off again).

    I knew that the next thing of note is Honiton bank, and that stopping at Axminster – coupled with wet rails – could be described as ‘sub-optimal’. We reached 40 about a mile and a half out, and started climbing. The speed went up slightly through Seaton Junction as the gradient eased and then reduced slowly as the climb progressed, always staying above 25 and with a ‘final’ effort we entered Honiton Tunnel at 28, although the front of the train probably would have recorded something a little slower.

    The plan was to then stop at Honiton to let the next Up train pass, but as we were now quite early we passed through at 54, accelerated to 70 then slowed for Feniton (35) then up to the high 60s to pass Whimple and Cranbrook then slowed to pass Pinhoe (35) to stop at Exmouth Junction. When we passed Pinhoe the Up train had been kept there, referring to RTT, this train departed 8 late. On reaching Exeter Central the train was 25 minutes early, with a elongated pause we departed 21 minutes early. During the short ‘drop’ down to Exeter St. Davids there was an announcement apologising for being early and that those who are still eating would be given time to finish.

    For once l cannot report on something interesting found by exploring the centre of a tour destination because use we made our way to The Imperial – along with a number from the train – to have a meal with the good company of some we had met on a previous steam trip and stayed there. After a very enjoyable time with some eye-catching moments we descended back to St. Davids in good time.

    The ECS from Exeter Riverside was 23 minutes late into Exeter St. Davids; we were informed that this was due to an issue with re-coaling the tender. The MNLPS website explains that the arm of the lorry had to be fixed first. I always think the sight of the end of a carriage being propelled into a station does look extremely odd. When we got back to our seats everyone was congratulated for a speedy boarding and that we would now wait for the next train North to depart first. This all meant that we departed 23 minutes late at 16:13, noting the GWR HST set on the Down side.

    I neglected to note the speed at Cowley Bridge Junction, but by 5 miles we were in the 60s with Tiverton Parkway passed at 73 and Whiteball Tunnel entry speed of 64. With a measured descent we continued with the speed always hovering around 75 for the next 37 miles or so: Taunton (76), Cogload Junction (75), Bridgwater (75) and Highbridge & Burnham (74). We slowed approaching Worle Junction, but by Yatton we were back to 70 with Nailsea & Blackwell passed at 68. After that we slowed for Bristol Temple Meads where we had to stop. After a few minutes we trundled onward the mile or so to Bristol East Depot to take on water.

    We were away for the Loop slightly early, with the water tanker slowly heading out of the depot. By Keynsham we were up to 55 with a maximum of around 64 before slowing to pass Oldfield Park (36) into the 20s. We passed Bath Spa accelerating gently at 32 and diverged at Bathampton Junction. We had a signal stop before Freshford where an onlooker in the adjacent had a good opportunity to take some pictures. Between here and Westbury there was nothing remarkable, slowing right down before acceleration through Westbury itself at 31. Climbing Upton Scudamore we passed Dilton Marsh at 34 to the top at a minimum of about 28. After slowing for Warminster (34) we run up to line speed (75) at Upton Lovell to then speed through the lovely countryside to be 3 early at Wilton Junction and then a shortly into Salisbury for water. Also waiting on the platform were several small bags of coal in what looked like a pre-planned arrangement to top-up the black stuff in the tender. Seeing the water hose running through the office (again) brought a smile to my face. Filling the tender with water did not take very long, and the only bit of additional information l can pass on is that the chap running the company supplying the tanker was surprised to how little water was required.

    We departed Salisbury on time, l am not sure on this, but there is an Internet source that the train’s headcode should have become “1Z84” at Salisbury – l have attached the file ‘Return.pdf’ for reference. We were quickly up to 50 and gradually accelerated to pass Grateley (68), l missed Andover, Whitchurch (72) and Overton (73). We stopped before Basingstoke to let the train coming up the Main Line to pass and then rolled into the station roughly on time. We were now booked to be on the Fast Line all the way back to London Waterloo. The highlight of the next ‘leg’ to the second set-down at Woking was the 76 through Farnborough.

    The departure from Woking was on time with the stations being passed in quick succession with the maximum speed of 73 through both Walton-on-Thames and Hersham. By this time darkness had fallen, so the carriage became more animated with cross-aisle conversations. After Earlsfield we hit the hold-up due to signal issues, passing Clapham Junction (10) and Queenstown Road (15) before being freed to pass Vauxhall (29) to glide into Platform 19 of London Waterloo at 22:00, a little delay of 12 minutes. After the mandatory ‘at the buffers’ photograph we said our goodbyes to retrace our earlier journey, which had a small delay at London Bridge and retuned home well before midnight.

    I have put together a document with maps and graphs covering the entire journey that you may find useful and / or interesting: called “ACE 2019 Maps and Graphs.pdf”. These have been produced from my old smart phone’s GPS recording a point every 5 seconds. I may have a dig around if there are any interesting comparisons with other trips l have done, but will post these separately.

    I sign-off with my gratitude to the team behind Clan Line and everyone else involved in the successful planning and subsequent running of the train – l hope they are proud!
    -SC-
     

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  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Member

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    Taken me a while to find it but Steam Days July 2017 has a picture by John H Bird of 35007 piloting 35008 up Parkstone Bank with BR Southern Farewell to Steam Special No1 on July 2 1967.
     
  17. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I knew there would be a picture somewhere. That could have been special dispensation as a one off but who knows. I know the Southern civil engineers had some odd restrictions on what was permitted.
     
  18. D1002

    D1002 Well-Known Member

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    21709AFA-813F-4337-BF13-972AED5B4753.jpeg
     
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  19. Victor

    Victor Part of the furniture Friend

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    What is this 'further tuning' that you speak of , what has he done to it ??
     
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  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Turned into an A4. :)
     
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