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30926

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by gresleyman, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. gresleyman

    gresleyman Member

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    Just had word from the front line that 30926 has just succesfully completed its test run on the Esk Valley branch this evening and is now fully certified. The first Schools on the mainline since 925 ran at the rainhill trial, and will be the first passenger train hauled by a Schools since 1962??
     
  2. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Very successful eveing last night - I was guard of the train as 30926 was taken above heritage railway speed for the first time on home soil since 1962/3 (not sure - KentiYeti will be able to advise if no-one else!) by Driver Cubitt under the watchful eye of Grosmont Shedmaster Clive Goult. Comment at one point was "I've not heard a Schools make that sound for a good few years!" (Not from me - I wasn't even born then!)

    All should now be in place for 30926 to make her first mainline passengers runs on Sunday, 4th October at the NYMR Gala.

    I am trying to up load a couple of picture of last night - not at all good photos but merely as a record of the occasion! No much luck so far! All I keep getting is a "Database error" message - any clues as to why?

    Steven
     
  3. claud hamilton

    claud hamilton New Member

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    Gresleyman , do you know whether the NYMR owns the engine now as I thought the original owner had passed away ?
    A pity the D49 cannot be prized away from Bo,ness !!
     
  4. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Yes Cliff Brown, the Darlington born, US based businessman who funded the purchase and overhaul of 30926 and 3672 Dame Vera Lynn gifted both locos to the NYMR before he sadly passed away a few years. They are both NYMR owned.

    Steven
     
  5. claud hamilton

    claud hamilton New Member

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    Thanks bean-counter , I thought that was the case . With the acquisition of 76079 the Moors seems to be building a useful stud of locos .

    76079
    75029
    80135
    45428
    30926
    Dame Vera

    I think this list is correct , though stand to be corrected .
     
  6. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Yes, list is correct - plus the S160 (and a spare boiler for it) current for sale.

    There are also 34101 and the 2 Lambton tanks that are maintained by the NYMR but not owned by it.

    The policy was supposed to be that the owned/NYMR maintained locos do up to 85% of the mileage - I don't think we will ever return to that but 2/3 is not unrealistic. there will always be a place for hired locos on the NYMR. We do about 70,000 steam miles as a rule - which is about the same as the Severn Valley and West Somerset I believe.
     
  7. claud hamilton

    claud hamilton New Member

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    Thanks again , your a mine of information . The Moors has always been one of my favourite lines to visit , just a pity it isn,t nearer to me !
    Looking at the list Repton is the only loco that is a little out of place up north . I wonder whether you would be prepared to sell it if say 61264 was available?
     
  8. conireland

    conireland Member

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    Is 6619 therefore owned 'outside of the railway' or is it a part of the NYMR fleet?
     
  9. gresleyman

    gresleyman Member

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    Privatley owned but very much an NYMR engine
     
  10. williamfj2

    williamfj2 Member

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    I'm not sure on this but I belive that the NYMR are not allowed to sell Repton as that was part of the deal when Cliff Brown passed on
     
  11. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    That is right - if we had ever "finished with" either loco, we could only gift to another "railroad charity" (the documents were drawn up in the US of A!) - and I can assure you we haven't "finished" with her by any means, nor are ever likely to!

    6619 is a "Home-Based" NYMR locomotive - not owned or maintained by the NYMR but with a contract showing expected mileage each year for the life of the contract (subject to availability). 825, 45212, 60007 and 63395 are in a similar position. There are also other locos with home-based status but no current contract.
     
  12. claud hamilton

    claud hamilton New Member

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    I presume the dining trains are heavier than the service trains and wondered whether they could be worked comfortably by a 4MT ? Is the railway reliant on hired in locos like Sir Nigel and Hartland until 45428 is finished ?
     
  13. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Yes, footplate crews reckon you can add a coach weight to the actual number - if you add up the extra tonnage, it is a bit less but still definitely heavier, so I won't argue with how it feels "up front".

    The Moorlander lunch rake is usually 4 Pullmans plus 3 Mark 1s for ordinary passengers. Quite often the GW Saloon is on for a booked party too, making 8. Back in the mid-1990s, the train often ran as 3 Pullmans added to 6 mark 1s.

    The Q6 is a favourite for the service - it is powerful yet smooth. The S & D 2-8-0 has been used with 60007, 825 and the Black Fives also considered suitable. 49395 was used a few weeks back when there was a "guest of honour" on the train (I'll let you guess who!).

    The 4MTs can physically work the train but this is avoided if possible on Grosmont to Pickering trains so as to avoid overstraining the locos as they are working hard. There are some comments that they used to be able to do this but unnecessarily wearing out locos when something else is available and suitable for the task. The 4MTs have worked most of the Grosmont to Battersby Saturday Pullmans, mainly 75029 although 76079 did one of the first in place of 60163.

    The 4MTs are ideal for ordinary service trains.

    Steven
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm afraid that Hartland last ran in 2001 so the NYMR isn't particularly reliant on it! It's overhaul has started but there is a long way to go, yet.
    I personally think that the 4MT's are overlaoded on the diners when they are made up to 8(=9). They may be able to keep them going but they would have a real job on restarting the train on the 1 in 49 and would need perfect rail conditions to do so (and a good driver). You also need the boiler pressure on the mark, otherwise it becomes a full reg, full gear slog. The Black 5's are only marginally better in this respect. You really need a class 6 loco to be comfortable.
     
  15. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    How does 825 compare with the Black Fives/ 62005? I read once that S15's are so sure-footed that you can open the regulator fully from a standing start with a heavy load and there be no wheelslip.
     
  16. 47406

    47406 Well-Known Member

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    I know from personal experience that 825 doesn't like the 1 in 49 from Grosmont when tender first! Slipped to a stand one year at Green End and was rescued by 80135 which banked us to Goathland.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    In terms of pulling power on the NYMR at 25 mph, our S15 (825) is streets ahead of a Black 5 and it steams just as well, if not better. Its 5'-8" wheels give it the edge and it is less prone to slipping. Remember, it is a class 6 loco, albeit a 6F. In terms of regulator opening, the pilot valve does virtually nothing other than get the train on the move so, if you want to go anywhere, its second valve and the reg handle gets in the way (and rather hot) if it's not in the fully open position. There's no sophistication to the thing and I find it impossible to drive sitting down but it does the job with no fuss.
    62005 is similar to the S15 in terms of pulling power on our grades and is better matched than a Black 5 due to its small wheels. Again, you are talking about a class 6 loco and, in terms of theoretical tractive effort, it is the strongest of the three.

    Slipping isn't usually a problem with the S15 but it doesn't have the luxury of reverse sands so the only sands available in reverse are those on the tender, which are really there for tender braking purposes in forward and aren't the best piece of kit put on a loco. They rarely work when required, even if they were unblocked when you left shed!
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Further to my original post, the following figures may (or may not be) be of interest:

    Tare Weight of an 8 coach diner: 287.5 tons
    Average passenger loading (say) 300 persons = 22.5 tons
    Weight of a Black 5: 125.25 tons
    Therefore total train weight = 435.25 tons
    Load due to gravity on a 1 in 49 = 435.25/49 = 8.882 tonf
    Frictional rolling resistance of train = 310 x 4.5/2240 = 0.623 tonf
    Frictional rolling resistance of loco = 125.25 x 12/2240 = 0.671 tonf
    This gives an all up resistance on the 1 in 49 of 10.176 tonf or 22794 lbf. Compare this with a Black 5's nominal tractrive effort of 25,455 lbf and you will see that there isn't much left for acceleration! The above also does not take into account curve resistance or wind resistance but at 20 mph that isn't much. The bank between Grosmont and Goathland is a nominal 1 in 49 but there are many places where it is undoubtedly steeper, even if only for short lengths but these are very noticeable when you are dragging a heavy train around.

    A few points about the figures used. The train weight does vary slightly depending on which coaches are in use but that was the plated figure a few months ago. The rolling resistances are taken from Phillipson and I know that the Black 5 tractive effort is merely a notional one. I do not have any data on tractive effort at various speeds to quote but the figures do serve to show that things are close to the limit with these locos. As an example, I had 45110 (visiting) on the diner one evening when it slipped at Green End. By the time I had put the sands on and got the regulator open again speed was down to about 5 mph. There it remained for the next 2½ miles with only a slight increase in speed on the straights, coupled with a slight reduction on the curves. The pressure was on the mark all the time and there was nothing left to give it.
     
  19. royce6229

    royce6229 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Steve for such detailed posts,very interesting.
     
  20. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    Yes, thanks again.
     

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