2999: Lady of Legend

There are quite a few photos of std gauge trains on mixed-gauge track, where the outer (BG ) rail looks decidedly unused, presumably taken after May 1892. When the last BG tracks (or baulk sleepering) was physically removed, I've no clue ... nor have I any notion of how the Brunel-pattern bridge rail coped with increasing train weights or speeds, which you'd have to presume was the reason to spend still more on what must have been a very expensive exercise, ahead of the normal replacement cycle

The BG scrap lines at Swindon (from photographic evidence) don't look to have been laid (on transverse sleepers) to any normally acceptable standard. I read an interesting tid-bit on disposal of Private-Owner BG waggonry, which it seems were returned to their respective owners for disposal.

Hey up mods ...... Is it time we took this fascinating subject off 2999's thread? I've a sneaking suspicion it may yet run a while.

 

I think there is probably scope for two new threads (there is already a Dean Single Wheeler one which can be used), one for general slating of the GWS and one for the BG/SG changeover!

 

You say that like I've got sommat against Dean singles ..... pretty locos .... though I'd be nore interested in the original 2-2-2 layout .... well, no-one in their right mind is likely to let any single driver loose on the big railway again anyway*! With a spot of modern computer modelling, that front axle issue might well be soluble plus .... make it BG convertible and you've widened the appeal base (so to speak).

* Pity ..... there goes any putative Stroudley G class!

 

Lbscr 2-2-2 would look nice

 

So just to bring it on track and remind ourselves of what we are likely to see, here's an illustration of a Saint in GWR livery.



Found here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...aw2FPxm4ywDfJT_V7V1GNhne&ust=1548935879326168

I don't know if this is as Lady of Legend will appear, but I imagine it's a good indication. How gorgeous is this?

 

From what I've seen in images of 2999 already, it will look very similar to your illustration but with a longer smokebox (superheat) and boiler top feed. I'm not comparing like for like of course but, in my view, the Saints have an elegance and style that just isn't there in the County 4-4-0s, which look a bit "cut and shunt" to me. However, we may well see one of those too in due course given the latest news on the Churchward County project.

 

Oh yes, you're quite right about the smokebox and top feed. I meant the livery specifically. Good reminder though.

I always thought they were wrong for not doing the Saint with the rounded running plate, I have now changed my mind after observing that the straight running plate version is very handsome, and different to the other GWR 4-6-0s in that area. It would of course only be suitable for the Atlantic option with the straight running plate.

 

Its quite a prospect, one day being able to see a line up of GW 4-6-0s

Saint
Star
Manor
Grange
Hall (& Modified Hall)
Castle
King
County

Obviously there is quite a variation in the classes where there are multiple preserved examples which would allow more to be added- but it would be an amazing spectacle.

Chris

 

You just need to add these bad boys, and you'll have the full set:

 

Ooh - a stretch Dukedog ...

Tom

 

Certainly ought to have plenty of oomph to get up to E Grinstead with all your Victorian carriages ... I think No 36 would have a certain amount of parts or at least techniques in common with a Dean Single too. The Kruger OTOH would be best forgotten!

 

Looking at that photo of 36, something I've never noticed before - a second set of springs on the middle driving axle - presumably there was a set of inside frames and additional axle boxes on the middle axle?

Tom

 

Yes, AIUI she was double framed as far as the firebox and outside frame only from there back. Rather ingenious because there's the maximum possible room for bearing surface on the driven axle, and a bit of extra width for the firebox, which is wider than would be possible on an inside framed locomotive.

 

... a trick that was only fifty years old by the time she was built!

(It's essentially the same frame layout as a Jenny Lind 2-2-2, which was successful for partly the same reasons: well-supported crank axle while allowing the maximum possible grate area within the outside frames to maximise boiler output without making the firebox unduly long).

Tom

 

which prompts the question why, when designers abandoned double frames, they kept the inside frames rather than the outside ones. Obviously outside frames wouldn't be compatible with outside cylinders, but there were plenty of classes with inside cylinders. Maybe it was because of the greater stresses on the crank axle that would have resulted from the much greater distance between the cranks and the axleboxes.
(Apologies for continuing some drastic thread drift!)

 

Best I echo @MellishR's thread drift apology first!

Certainly, there are plenty of NG locos with outside frames and valve gear (even Walschaerts .... Collett's VoR prairie tanks from 1923 being a late example). The very last industrial NG loco from Hunslet in 1971 (Trankgil No.4) features both.

Just a thought, but shouldn't (post WWII) 'Leader' or the 'Turf Burner' be classified as 'outside framed'?

 

and an 08 of course

 

Get ready, for the official Launch event for 2999 is coming this Friday! Lady of Legend will steam on April 5th!

 

Even on the standard gauge, the combination of outside frames and outside cylinders is not unknown. In UK, perhaps the most famous case was an experimental 2-2-2 built by Mr McConnell at Wolverton in 1849 for the LNWR Southern division. Due to its exceptional overall width, it had arguments with the Euston station platform edges and became known as "Mac's Mangle".

But outside frame/outside cylinder combinations were more common on the Continent, especially Central Europe. For example the Hungarian Railways (MAV) 4-4-0 Class 220, one of which has been preserved.

 

Evening all, there’s a hint in the Steam Railway magazine that the Saint will run with Didcots period coaching stock, as in the really old ones with the Windows at roof level (sorry can’t think of the correct name) any truth in this ?