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2999: Lady of Legend

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Ian White, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Yes but the Castles were designed after Churchward time and the Castles were changed balancewise following the Bridge stress work 1923-28.
    Churchwards four cylinder 4-6-0 were also harsh animals to tracks and bridges.
    The gentleman writing as Courier has acces to the report as he used it for calculating wheel lifting speed of Saints (104 mph) I think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  2. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    The Stars were rebalanced as well.
     
  3. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    Didcot has surely contributed more than any other site to heritage preservation and recreation.
     
  4. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    For such a disastrous design failure they seem to have been extraordinarily successful.
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Err I think there's a few places might disagree with that...
     
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  6. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    I came across this document which will warrant some study.

    https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/47350/2/Bardell-PS-1989-PhD-Thesis.pdf

    "The Balancing of Steam Locomotives:
    A Dynamical Problem of the Nineteenth and
    Twentieth Centuries
    by
    PETER SIDNEY BARDELL
    A thesis submitted to the University of London
    for the award of the degree of
    Doctor of Philosophy
    History of Science & Technology Group
    Imperial College of Science, Technology and Medicine
    December 1988"

    Here's an extract.
     
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  7. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Thank You
    I am lost the next couple of hours
     
  8. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    They were not disastrous dead ends built in big numbers,but improved Saints could maybe have done just as well and cheaper.
    Having a working Saint and some four-cylindered locomotives enables a test of Churchwards 100 years old desicion.
    Steam locomotive history is expensive, unnessecary,not PC and very interesting
    The fastest european steam operated service was run by belgian two cylinder locomotives with big wheels in 1939.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  9. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    If you can digest that in a couple of hours you're doing better than me...

    It's an interesting insight into Collett and GWR practice that while always reluctant to design something radical and new he/they would set to and upgrade the entire fleet in a matter of months where they saw a clear advantage in doing so.
     
  10. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    I've never quite got my head round how they managed the gauge change in what seems like an impossibly short timescale. Maybe their ethos of standardisation at the expense of free-thinking gave them an almost military-style organisation (and loyalty) which was then more capable then the others when challenged with such feats?
     
  11. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    They'd actually done an awful lot of gauge conversions, and goodness knows they'd had enough time to plan.

    I suppose the other thing is there was an enormous workforce of track staff in those days, so plenty of manpower given enough organisation.
     
  12. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Of course the Americans had already done it bigger and better. Converting the thousands of miles of the Southern States railroads from 5'to 4'9" in just 36 hours on 31st May and 1st June 1886.

    Even on the GWR the 1872 South Wales gauge conversion was a much bigger task but was able to be spread over 3 weeks by first converting the up line then introducing the standard gauge trains while the down line was completed.
    It doesn't say a great deal for the GWR progressing necessary improvements that it took another 20 years to finish the job in Devon and Cornwall.
     
  13. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    You better lock your doors and windows...the GWR Mafia will be after you now! :eek:
     
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  14. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Clearly reluctant to downgrade before they had to...
     
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  15. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Isn't that essentially what Hawksworth's Counties were?
     
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  16. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Short answer, yes
     
  17. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    If I was manager of locomotive contests I would rather pit Counties against Kings .It is essentially the same questions 2 versus 4 etc but they match up better in time.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    A lot of planning must have gone in to it!

    There's a good article (link below) about the conversion - one interesting photo of the last down train through Teignmouth clearly shows that every other cross tie on the baulk road had been sawn through before the conversion, so as to speed up the actual process.

    https://www.21stcentury-rail.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2-GW-Broad-Gauge-end-of-1892-1.pdf

    One thing I hadn't appreciated, though it is obvious in retrospect, is that the dual gauge lines east of Exeter weren't converted at that time. When you think about it, there was no immediate rush to do so, though it leads to the question of just when was the last section of broad gauge track actually removed? Clearly it must have lasted for a few years at Swindon while lines of locos and rolling stock were still awaiting being cut up or converted (the conversions apparently lasted until 1894), but I wonder when the last bit of dual gauge track on the mainline disappeared?

    Tom
     
  19. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    ISTR there have been disconnected broad gauge sidings found in living memory. I imagine though they'd have been pretty keen to collect the scrap metal ASAP, but I shouldn't be surprised if the longer sleepers on cross sleepered ex BG lines lasted until they wore out.
     
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  20. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The gauge change was prior to the push to standardisation as led by Chrurchward in the early 20th century.
     

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