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21st Century Steam Ltd Tours (Tornado Rail Tours)

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by MellishR, Oct 8, 2022.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Whether that plan was abandoned for engineering or financial reasons, it deserves to be considered for revival.
     
  2. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    The costs of that along with maintaining mk3's which are notorious for needing constant ventiltion to prevent them composting from the inside out made that proposal to my mind a flight of fantasy.

    Now what many may not appreciate is what started at a Wiltshire Junction is coming to a conclusion and the balance of power in terms of main line steam is increasingly at 5A as opposed to 10A, aided by what many will see as self inflicted acceleration of that process. the key will be who controls compliant rakes of stock and where are they signed up too.

    one wonders whether some will regret not accepting the bankers offer when the call came
     
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  3. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    There are plenty of covenantors and former volunteers who would gladly step up to help. But not with the current autocratic, out of touch and incompetent regime in place.
     
  4. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    that may be the case but do they know what they are really letting themselves in for and when push comes to shove would they still stand in line , or would they really step forward

    I know its a negative voice but experience shows its the former of the two
     
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  5. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The future for the SRPS set being a particular point of interest.
     
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  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't have the financial involvement in the Trust that others do so I'm not really entitled to comment in detail. That said, I guess that if you rate yourself as a significant player in the heritage world, as the A1ST does, then one would think that part of your planning would be to look wider than your specific interest and try to ensure that all the potential obstacles to your success were addressed. I know that generally it's the case that loco owners look to just hire out their loco and leave others to sort out how passengers are carried but two different examples come to mind.

    LSL developed a fleet of locomotives and fairly quickly decided that a compatible set of good quality rolling stock was what they needed and not just for their steam locomotives to haul. Vintage Trains did something similar although earlier.

    The 'wave' that was CDL and related upgrading was telegraphed a while back and irrespective of the response of individual operators, it's not too difficult to work out that any set-up with the ambition to be a big player might have at least considered, and then followed through, on some form of 'future proofing'. The current (expensive) focus on ERTMS is an interesting one given that this work is planned south of Stoke Tunnel and Tornado is based at Darlington with ambitions into Scotland.

    How you make the right decision is beyond my pay grade but whilst you can't criticise the A1ST for lack of ambition, you do wonder about the finer detail of planning, prioritisation and of course, engineering. Unconnected or not, some of us have not yet forgotten when it could be argued that the eye came off the ball in April 2018.
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    They seem to have a fetish for the Armed forces:
    Tornado - RAF;
    Prince of Wales - RN;
    Highlander - Army.

    I think they also got squaddies involved with track laying at Bonomi Road?

    A bit more time spent on engineering wouldn't go amiss.
     
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  8. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    Well when you look at their Chairman's career hardly suprising!

    However, leadership styles that work in the forces may not necessarily be best suited for the current situation??
     
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  9. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    I know of plenty of former volunteers like me and others who have been associated with the trust who are willing to step up but NOT under its current incompetent, deluded and authoritarian leadership.
     
  10. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    He was in the army, didn’t you know?

    it’s fantastic to have such relationships but not at the cost of engineering, fundraising, project management, financial management, etc.

    As we all know treating volunteers like squaddies doesn’t work and they have left in droves under the current regime. And it would be interesting to know the real reasons behind the ‘resignations’ of Allatt, Bruce, Bunker-James and Parker over the past three years - the last two haven’t even been communicated to supporters although they happened months ago.
     
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  11. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    All good observations. I think that the events of April 2018 were the first clear signs that all was not well in Camelot and it’s been steadily downhill since, accelerating like a runaway train if you’ll pardon the pun.
     
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  12. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    They’ve been let down so many times by A1SLT - like the NVR - I suspect they will not want to put many eggs in that basket.
     
  13. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    All I can say is that in the conversations I have had many would but all of the existing trustees who have been complicit in the trust’s rapid decline would need to go.
     
  14. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    If this tour does run on the 31st August then chance of 3 steam locos at Carlisle
    The Lakelander, Northern Belle and the Tornado tour
     
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I wouldn't bet on Tornado working any main line tours before 2025, the testing, that will be needed, and all the bugs that will need to be ironed out with the new electronics will take time, then of course the engine will need to be tested with the new signalling system going live on the mainline, before it operates any revenue earning tours.
     
  16. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    I suspect that you are right. That will present them with a major problem moving the Pullman again from a contractual perspective.
     
  17. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    But surely the new electronics are only necessary for when it's running on an ERTMS/ETCS-signalled line, or am I missing something here?
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, but I believe that as Tornado will have to be re-registered on TOPS, that will require all elements of it to be working. So the ERTMS will need to be tested as operational as presumably it will be interconnected with the existing electronic systems that require the locomotive to be 'logged on' when running on the main line etc etc.

    It really isn't as easy as firing up and off you go!
     
  19. Sir Ralph Wedgwood

    Sir Ralph Wedgwood New Member

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    Plus I understand that there is still a lot of work outside of ERTMS that still needed doing to Tornado when it arrived at the GCR from LMS. I think that their latest email to supporters letting them down again still failed to be open and honest about when Tornado will be fully operational. I certainly won’t be booking on a train this year and taking the risk of hotel reservation cancellation costs only to be let down close to the tour date by an organisation which has consistently failed to deliver on its promises in recent years.
     
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  20. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I sense your frustration but I cannot believe anyone books any railtour, regardless of operator, loco, steam or diesel regardless of where it may be in its ticket, and then books a hotel you cannot cancel for free on the day of the tour.
    The opportunities for something to cause the tour not to happen are way beyond if the loco is finished on time.
    NR Steam Bans
    Late engineering works, especially now with frequent poor weather events.
    Failure on the day.
    Even in 2022 a passenger death on board just before departure led to the train cancellation.
    The list is potentially endless.

    When we are asked to book a hotel as a steward on a trip that starts away from London it is always on the understanding it is cancellable at no cost. Recently one of my steward colleagues was recently asked not to go to Norwich but Ely, long after his hotel booking in Norwich.
     

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