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15" Passenger Carrying Loading Gauge

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by ilvaporista, Apr 5, 2024.

  1. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    I am looking for information on the loading gauge required for a 15" passenger carrying railway. Along the lines of the Ravenglass, Bure Valley or Romney.
    What is the overall width and active operating envelope?
    The coaches should be able to sit two people side by side.
    I can guess that there is no actual definitive specification but it would help with some research for a potential project.
    Any pointers or suggestions gratefully received!
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Have a look at RSP5 which was originally produced by the ORR and is currently available on the HRA website. There is some good information on the structure gauge. The loading gauge and structure gauge should be complementary. If you are designing from a clean sheet I would define the loading gauge and then define the structure gauge. If your structure gauge already exists, then that would define the loading gauge. Be wary of going too wide with the vehicle width as that can lead to vehicle instability.
    You shouldn't have to be a HRA member to access this. If it doesn't work, pm me.
    https://www.hra.uk.com/storage/HGR-A0000 Guidance on Minor Railways.pdf
     
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  3. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Many thanks Steve. Interesting! The structures are already in place and we need to establish if a cycleway and railway can coexist on a former metre gauge trackbed.
     
  4. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    Laal Ratty is 15" and built on most of the alignment of a 3ft gauge line, but apart from a short section just before Dalegarth it doesn't share the route with roads / paths.

    However, the South Tynedale's a 2ft line with the route on a Standard gauge alignment and that is shared with a walking trail and cycle path.

    Also the HRA link above !
     
  5. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Thanks. I'm still looking for a rough size of the width and height of existing 15" lines to see if we are in the right ballpark. It's the worry about fitting a cycle track and the 15" line through the structures that concerns me.
     
  6. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/58/86/2588688_a821b7c3_1024x1024.jpg

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Romney_Station_-_geograph.org.uk_-_775053.jpg

    Is that any help? The tunnel at the South end of New Romney station. There's not much gap between the top of the carriage and the tunnel roof. At a rough estimate the carriages are about 4' 6" above rail level, so that would make the tunnel roughly 5'. Width wise it's probably about 6', but doesn't need to be that wide. 3' 6" maybe, 4' for a bit of wiggle room?
     
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  7. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If you are wanting a distance to work to I would go for 1000mm from the side of the coach to the fence line on the side of the cycleway. On the opposite side you could come down to about 750mm as that should give adequate clearance against people putting an arm out and touching a structure. How wide does the cycleway have to be?
    At the end of the day, who is responsible for approving things and should you not be asking them for their requirements?
     
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  8. ZBmer

    ZBmer New Member

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    This truly is a 'how long is a piece of string?' question. Say you cut your trackbed in half: one side has a cycle way/ footpath and the other half is your line. This format has precedent - UK 15" gauge lines like BVR, which runs on half of a former standard gauge single line and has footpath/ cycle way for its full length. Aside from the obvious loading gauge restrictions set by existing bridges, narrow cuttings etc, a major bottleneck would occur if you're expecting to have any passing loops. Trains have to be able to pass each other with a safe margin - including passengers leaning out (potentially from both passing trains). If you're going to have hinged opening doors on your stock, trains will need to be able to pass without open doors fouling each other. UK law requires footpath/ cycle way to be fenced from the railway - the stock (and by extension open doors/ leaning-out passengers) therefore needs not to foul fence or path users.

    BVR has opening door passenger stock, no open or semi-open carriages (because of a restricted-bore tunnel). Passing loops require up to 60% of the former trackbed formation. BVR carriages (perhaps the largest 15inch gauge UK passenger stock) are 1.3m wide, 1.7m high (from railhead) and 8.5m long. But open doors on both sides will add another metre to that maximum width. The biggest locomotive, No9 is 1.5m wide, 1.95high.
     
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  9. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Thanks very much for the replies. It really is early days with this project and nothing like this has been done before in Italy. The line in question was abandoned years ago and there are now discussions underway about reusing parts to gain access to a beautiful part of the country.
    As ever in Italy things go forward at a very slow pace.
     
  10. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    I am told that the absolute minimum for the cycleway is 1.4 m.
     

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