£175k to restore a £30k coach

I'm not necessarily trying to justify the cost of this, just pointing out that all may not be as it first seems. Apprentice training is probably one of the WSRA's objectives, so some of the "excess" expenditure could have been incurred in this way.

 

I think in this specific case, the main failing was a lack of proper project and cost control, rather than the price per se.

I wonder whether, in years to come, the figures people find surprising will be less the £175k cost, and more the £25 - £30k valuation of a Mark 1. Once you start doing major steelwork replacement, retrim throughout, overhaul the bogies etc, and then do all that with a large proportion of paid labour, then a six figure sum starts to look a bit more realistic (though arguably the job should then have been done quicker). Mark 1s are cheap because they aren't rare, but sooner or later a lot currently in service will need major repairs, at which point the market may become less liquid and the value of a good one might go up sharply.

Tom

 

or for heritage purposes come tumbling down,

The Melter

 

While that sounds a lot of money for one coach, I do wonder what else has been purchased that can be reused for other coach projects and if say some storage building has also had to be acquired as a result of this rebuild.

 

If that were the case the items concerned should not have been included in the cost of the coach; they become separate assets in their own right and should be recorded as such.

 

I agree but from my own experience while working at a couple of sites years ago, financial transparency was not a big issue like it is today and it could well be that a small group have done the same sort of thing now. That said none of us really know how the money was spent and on what in the first place, so until some one comes forward with the details this is just idle gossip.

I don't want to take sides in the overall debate of what has and has not happen on the West Somerset Railway, but I do have a concern that big railways like the WSR also appear to have a few people with big egos.

Once the facts are in the open we can then draw our own conclusions as to how we go forward with the full restoration of the carriage itself.

 

That is the key of this issue. Sloppy accounting reinforced by poor auditing and abysmal reporting.
Unfortunately it is only too common for all parties to forget that they are responsible to their members for the proper use of assets and expenditure of money. Every last penny of expenditure should be able to be accounted for if questioned, and the members have the right to question the use of their property. Too often Annual Accounts are tabled at an AGM, and approved without question even when there are obvious changes which require explanation.

 

The accounts for the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust for 31 March 2015 show Mark 1 coach E21249 in the accounts at £460,000. Perhaps they also copy the Sultan of Brunei and have gold bathroom fittings, or perhaps coaches are more expensive than some WSRA supporters seem to think?

 

I am not sure but as a support coach it may have to be subject to certain standards which are required to be maintained for main line running

 

The A1 trust support coach is not only very well looked after and maintained but also has lots of new modern electronics which 'normal' heritage line stock does not. This has probably added to the costs as the equipment had to be designed and built to fit into the coach. Then there's the fact the workshops at Darlington probably don't have all the equipment needed so some work may have been contracted out. I'm imagining there's also greater costs in running a coach to mainline standard than on a heritage line.

It all adds up! Every coach will need different work doing to it and every location has different tools and workforce, depending where you are and the condition of the coach will depend on its restoration cost.

 

I know it is stating the obvious , but carriage restoration costs must come out much lower if you have a well-organised volunteer labour force. The best example you can see reported online is the GWSR carriage & wagon operation at Winchcombe. They appear to have set out to be well equipped, and undertake as much as possible in house, both for maintaining their existing Mk1 fleet, and overhauling further vehicles ( in differing initial condition) for a third rake for when the line opens to Broadway.
They don't mind sharing their endeavours, via a BlogSpot, updated almost daily;

http://cwatgwsr.blogspot.co.uk

46118

 

I read my copy of Main Line last night. One thing that leapt out at me was a statement by Bill Ford that a "full overhaul" of a Mark 1 carriage costs "at least £100k".

I offer this without comment.

 

I note the 'Main Line' mentioned.
Now does this overhaul figure refer to solely main line standard vehicles or is the 'Heritage' car likely to cost the same?

 

"Main Line" is the GCR's magazine, so I interpreted the figures as applying to a "full overhaul" to the standard required for the GCR.

 

Better tell Bill to outsource the overhauls to the WSRA and save £70k a pop.

 

I don't think that works If it went to the WSRA, they would charge 75 grand more than the GCR charge ...

More seriously, it shows the disconnect between the supposed value of a Mark 1 coach, and the real cost of keeping them in good order. It may well be possible to buy one in runnable condition for the purported £30k, but it is likely to be tired, even if basically functional. I don't suppose anyone who has just done a bogie overhaul, replaced corroded end pillars, re-sheeted the exterior where required, trimmed with new moquette, rewired, overhauled the brakes and steam heating, rebuilt the doors and door locks, and then repainted a Mark 1 is going to be happy to sell the end result for £30k...

It does seem slightly mischievous to contrast the £30k cost with a £175k overhaul, as if the input and output are identical, when clearly they are not.

Tom

 

Ah but it is the ancien regime that charges 175k, we are led to believe the new WSRA can do it for 30k, hence the title of this thread.

 

Unfortunately, there have been no "real life" comparisons quoted on here with the WSRA £175k. There are a number of heritage railways who overhaul/re-furbish Mk 1's on regular basis (using both volunteer and paid labour) and it would be interesting to know what their average costs are.

 

My post was an attempt to provide one such "real life" figure, albeit flawed.