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Streamlined Non-Pacifics

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by DismalChips, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Canada says eh

    [​IMG]

    to a slightly round smokebox door

    [​IMG]

    CP also went in for it.

    Canadian Pacific Jubilees (better than the LMS?) :eek:

    [​IMG]

    to the Royal Hudsons

    [​IMG]

    to a Streamlined 2-10-4

    [​IMG]

    Sources:

    https://www.railarchive.net/randomsteam/cnr6400.htm
    http://silverhawkauthor.com/steam-locomotives-and-trains-of-canada_364.html
    https://www.rapidotrains.com/hudson-master-class/
    https://www.rapidotrains.com/iocs-future-releases/
    http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/T1.htm
     
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  2. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Is it possible that a Great Western loco got there first? From the testimony of a former Mather Dixon & Co. employee many years later:-

    [​IMG]
     
  3. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not overly sure it was worth the Italians streamlining a 2-8-0 with a maximum speed of 65 km/h!
    [​IMG]

    Though possibly a bit more effective on a 120 km/h 2-6-2.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Well-Known Member

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    That one looks as if it could double up as a paddle steamer!
     
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  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    The PRR T1 4-4-4-4 Duplex locos;
    T1_color_photo.jpg
     
  6. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    To go back a few posts, the streamlined Schools looked spectacular. I'd love to have seen it. Imagine being 7 or 8 and seeing that, you'd know you were living in the space age.
     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    You may have a point there. :)
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Don't you think that all those were 'streamlined' to make them look more imposing and faster, than actually be of any use at the speeds that most travelled at?
     
  9. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid my idea of streamlining does not include some of the foregoing - a pointy smokebox door or a wraparound cow catcher doesn't do it imo.

    neither does this French offering . Semi streamlined - but gorgeous 1200px-Corpet-Louvet-n1908-1949-232-U-1-SNCF.jpg
     
  10. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

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    Conventional wisdom has it that for most locos the streamlining was pretty much of cosmetic/publicity value. Looking at a well known internet site, the Coronation class pacifics were three tons heavier in streamlined form, which would have incurred extra fuel costs at all speeds, whereas streamlining has little effect at low speed (air resistance rising with the square of velocity rather than linearly)
     
  11. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Almost certainly style over content.

    I mean the 2-10-4 was based in Calgary for going over the mountains which they weren’t doing at high speed.
     
  12. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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  13. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin Member

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  14. MrC

    MrC New Member

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  15. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    I didn't realise the Schools actually ran on the mainline at all - are there any photos, please?
     
  16. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think it only ran like this once but here you are.
    image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The photo @Matt37401 has included is the only photo I've ever seen - certainly nothing of it actually running.

    Tom
     
  19. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I rather think there's been one very specific advantage missed off here - certainly true of the Gresley locomotives fitted with the Bugatti front end.

    Smoke deflection.

    The wedge shape and the aerofoils lifted the smoke away from the driver's line of sight. This is best demonstrated by looking at Youtube videos to compare between single chimney Flying Scotsman and the double chimney A4s running in preservation.

    The bugatti front end locos, by and large, significantly better at smoke deflection. Fitting it to the W1, the P2s and the two B17s were part of a publicity drive, absolutely, but it also remains an absolute fact that the front ends served this practical purpose too - and it did it very well (and still do it well today).

    There is an argument that 2007 Prince of Wales might have been better off adopting the P2/3 spec with streamlined front end and piston valves - both known quantities for smoke deflection and everyday use.

    However - within the casing of no.2007, and particular behind the chimney, there have been modifications made to improve the smoke deflection ability of the original Cock O' The North style front end. Should it work, it'll likely retain the magnificence of this shape with a performance similar to that of the Bugatti front end.

    Smoke deflection is a much forgot about bit of locomotive design, sadly.
     
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  20. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    It did save on power requirements - but to get the most out of the casing, you have to be going significantly faster than normal line speeds. Mallard's 126mph (or 125mph dependent on your point of view) would have been an unlikely aim were it not for the combination of the Bugatti front end plus the double kylchap plus the boiler type plus conjugated valve gear (which, although in the Mallard high speed run latterly ran hot, is inherently good for high speed, driving all onto one axle).
     

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