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Rother Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage railways & Centres in the Uk' started by nine elms fan, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Where is this coastal regeneration around Hastings ? oh, yes an desire to bring HS1 to Hastings , easier said than done Ms Rudd ;)
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Resident of Nat Pres

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    I always find those kinds of arguments unconvincing. The argument seems to be that roads generate economic activity. But it isn't the act of driving itself that is important, it is the improved access that roads afford to local businesses - including tourist businesses. If re-generation is going to come, a thriving tourist scene will be part of that. Viewed that way, assisting a developing tourist business would seem to me a higher priority for regeneration that simply enabling faster journeys between Hastings and London, but in the process stymieing a business hoping to develop in the local area ...

    Tom
     
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  3. Robin White

    Robin White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe.

    But the MPs' position is about votes, not (1) convincing argument or (2) business development in the commuter belt (unlikely to bring votes).

    Robin
     
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  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    What sort of environmental and social effect would doubling the section of A21 create? Tonbridge to pembury has created a lot of delay in the time it has taken to build it, so i'm assuming that there would be a simular effect on traffic if this bit was to be doubled, and additional land would have to be purchased to allow for an additional section of road, i'm imagining that local road users won't welcome that either, but looking on the bright side, it may lead to a solution, if a new section of road were to replace the level crossing and roundabout, then there would be no problem caused to through traffic, only local traffic wich would still use the existing road .
     
  5. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Potentially significant. When I lived in NW Kent, it was significantly harder to get to places on the A21 corridor than most of the rest of the county. Given the levels of deprivation in that area generally, and in Hastings in particular, and the emphasis on better connections, the MPs responses are unsurprising.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  6. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

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    There is no such doubling proposal, and the MPs' objection (a very short letter written in 2014) reads to me as a vague objection in principle to anything that 'might' lead to delays on the A21 without considering whether it actually will. Almost as if they were going through the motions merely to satisfy a certain kind of voter.
     
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  7. jnc

    jnc Member

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    So, this story, from 24 March 2017, seems positive, but this later story, from April 25, 2017, makes it sound like there is major trouble.

    Both sets of land-owners (who are interviewed, named and shown in the article - interesting) sound like they are in the 'over my dead body' class; one group actually has been farming there since before the line first went in (I assume they bought the land back from BR when the trackbed was sold).

    At this point, it sure looks to me as if there are only two (un-palatable) choices: i) a compulsory purchase, or ii) re-routing the line - perhaps neighbouring land-owners would be willing to sell a strip along the 'back' of their holdings (where it abuts to the holdings of these two). I have no idea if the latter is at all practicable, but if the railway cannot get a compulsory purchase, I can't see that there is any other way to get from A to B.

    Noel
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Would you expect the farmers who oppose it to be saying any thing else? looking at the first picture, the land has been in effect returned to nature, so re instatement should have a minimal impact as its not farmed, the second, as the embankments have been removed by The farmer, as the exact oposite of the first farmers case, and locals question his assertion that its used for crops, some locals seem to think its only been used as pasture but thats neither here or there, as an embankment has to be re built, it could always if thiesable be rebuilt at the edge of the field as long as it can regain the original course of the line by the bridges .but with anything, its dependant on some degreee of good will, if these farmers stick their heels in, refuse to talk, to come to some kind of an understanding and refuse to sell or countance and mediation, then there are only 2 options, go to court get a compulsory purchase order as part of the works order, or give up, i cant see the RVR and its backers giving up having obtained outline planning for it.
     
  9. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    The later report doesn't make any new revelations. The opposition of at least one landowner has been well-known for some time. The two individuals mentioned are not the only landowners and the other(s) are more accommodating, so I believe.

    One can but hope that a way forward can be found. A CPO really isn't pleasant for anyone. Although Naturally, I'd love to see Robertsbridge and Junction Road connected, one can sympathise with the farmers. After all, whatever the do (or don't do) with their land, it's their property and the reinstatement of a railway would be quite a disruption for them.
     
  10. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    The railway should press on and acquire every piece of land that it can by negotiation so that the bits left with owners who do not wish to sell is minimal. It should then make a very generous monetary offer (far more than the DV would assess as the value) together with accommodation works. If this fails then that would be the time to ask for a T&WA Order including compulsory purchase powers. Most farmers act like ordinary businessmen and know when to take an outstandingly good deal. Those who take the "over my dead body attitude" will ultimately fall to the T&WA. The promoters will be aware that the land would originally have been held by a farmer, it would have been compulsorily purchased under the LRA 1896, then sold back to the abutting land owner when BR no longer wanted it (probably for a pittance) and now a railway operator wants to acquire it again. A second bout of compulsory purchase is never politically popular but it was done on a grand scale for the Borders Railway. I am sure that it would be successful here on a very small scale to allow the completion of the railway.
     
  11. jnc

    jnc Member

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    As in, there are others who are part-owners of the two parcels in question? For the second one, at least, there's an image of three people standing in a field (a photo presumably taken for the article), so it would appear that they all agree with that position.

    And if you only meant 'owners of other parcels'; alas, it only takes one to leave a gap!

    Oh, I quite agree. I don't know if they are of a mind to do any kind of compromise, though (e.g. 'we'll sell you a corridor, but only along the very back edge of our land, so it will be necessary to re-route'); it rather sounds like the entire idea is anathema, at least to the first lady.

    Absolutely; I do see their side of it. But, there's another side too - do they see that? From her comments ("all because a group of steam rail hobbyists – mostly from far afield – want to go up and down the valley and a lot of them have money"), I'm not sure she does. I don't know about the other group, not much is said about their views.

    Noel
     
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  12. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    Although my sympathy for the landowners at Robertsbridge remains, I must confess I would rather be them than any landowner in a potential dualling corridor of the A21 between Kipping's Cross and Lamberhurst.

    I lived my first 35-odd years in the area and know that stretch of the A21 extremely well. Last year I returned 'home' for the first time in a decade and the stretch between Tonbridge and North Farm, where the current dualling scheme was/is taking place, was almost unrecognisable. It had absolutely trashed an attractive stretch of Kentish countryside, which would be proportionally magnified on the longer stretch from Kippings Cross to Lamberhurst.
     
  13. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Active Member

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    Yes not a pretty site at the moment, but really its something that should have done years ago, maybe they should have continued when the Tonbridge bypass was built.
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Anyone who uses the A21 knows how bad it is, it really should have been dueled from the Battle Rd to the Junction with the M25, thus removing the traffic on the A259, between Hastings and Bexhill , if it were to be done now, then the road layout could be changed to allow a short tunnel so the railway can cross under without effecting the traffic,
    As regards the objections, have they ever stopped to think about " the other side" most likely not, for instance, what impact would the railway returning have to the businesses of Robertsbridge ? and possible new business? and dealing with the first objection, how much impact would the lines re instatement have on the wild life? wild life is very good at adapting to new conditions i would say a train would have very little impact, once it has past how long does it take for things to return to normal? i say her argument dont hold up .
     
  15. DragonHandler

    DragonHandler New Member

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    Sorry Martin1656, I don't normally pick up on people's spelling mistakes because my spelling is nothing to write home about.
    But the idea of a duel on the Battle Road appealed to my weird sense of humour. :) :)
     
  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well the last one was won by some bloke from Normandy , over here on an away day , :):)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  17. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    But he liked the place so much, he decided to stay. One in the eye for the Brits!
     
  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Another example of illegal immigration and our inability to deport them back to Normandy
     
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  19. DisusedBranch

    DisusedBranch Active Member

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    If you're going to use the wildlife argument to show your support for the RVR, Martin, claiming in the same post that the A21 should be dualled through Sussex & Kent is not really the best way to go about it. It smacks of hypocrisy, of clutching at any straw to prove your point of view is 'right', because roads very obviously do not apply to the second quote in that same post.

    Compared to roads, theoretically railways have a lesser impact on wildlife. However, you are overlooking the fact that disused embankments and cuttings left to nature form wonderful natural wildlife reserves. It's not just about the really obvious stuff like cute furry bunnies and field voles - once you put ballast and rails back down on a disused railway, you destroy a habitat for a huge variety of grasses, fungi, orchids, many other plants and millions of insects. Then the weedkilling train goes along and the over/windborne spray affects plants and animals outside the ballasted area. And of course Joe Public wants to 'see the view', so the boys come along with their chainsaws every now again and trim/fell trees, destroying nesting sites for birds and homes for insects. Then the embankments get burrowed under by rabbits/foxes/badgers or tree roots making them unstable, so they have to go too.

    I admire you unwavering support for the RVR, but you really need to think your arguments through in more detail before using them. It's not just about black and white "the landowners are bad people and the wildlife will be fine because trains only go along every so often" arguments. The whole issue is a million and one different shades of grey.

    As for the benefits to businesses in Robertsbridge. I can only speak for myself here but, at virtually every preserved line I've travelled on, I have spent money at the railway, but rarely in the towns and villages that they serve. For example, at the SVR Bridgnorth has the Railwayman's Arms (so no need to even leave the station!) and I'm struggling to think of a reason to want to venture into Kidderminster!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  20. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    Last paragraph is not true, the traders in Bridgnorth suffered a big downturn in trade after the floods a few years ago and Shropshire CC made a substantial grant towards reinstating the railway. I think you are looking at it from the point of view of a railway enthusiast but Joe Public don,t just stick to the railway
     

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