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Never seen before Stanier Jubilee Photos

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by neildimmer, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Hi All

    I have added 7 new collections of Stanier Jubilee photos never seen before by Tony Gillett
    45591 Udaipur Preston Station 28/5/60
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019068.html
    45592 Indore & 1 coach Preston 20/4/61
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019080.html
    45592 Indore Preston mpd 9/1/61
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019081.html
    45593 Kholhapur Blackpool mpd 14/8/63 & Lostock Hall
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019085.html
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019086.html
    45596 Bahamas Lostock Hall 10/11/61
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019306.html
    45596 Bahamas Preston mpd 25/1/61
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019269.html
    45596 Bahamas now preserved and in Haworth Shed Keighley & Worth Valley Railway
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61020065.html
    45598 Basutoland nameplate
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019407.html
    45599 Bechuanaland nameplate
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019411.html
    45560 Bermuda Preston 6/3/65
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019597.html
    45560 Bermuda catches Black 5 44767 Southport St Lukes 21/3/62
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019596.html
    45560 Bermuda Nameplate
    http://stanier-jubilee.photos.gb.net/p61019598.html

    Neil
     
    neildimmer, Sep 17, 2009
    #1
  2. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Thank you for taking the time to put these up - They are really interesting.
     
    Pete Thornhill, Sep 18, 2009
    #2
  3. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Looks like 45596 gained its double chimney between 1/61 & 11/61.
     
    buseng, Sep 18, 2009
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  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    That would be correct 45596 did gain the double chimney in 1961. The real question is why?
     
    Pete Thornhill, Sep 18, 2009
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  5. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, very nice. I see 45593 has the 3500 gall. Stanier tender.

    Dave
     
    daveannjon, Sep 18, 2009
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  6. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Just to add to Pete Thornhill's comment above about "Bahamas" and the double chimney, you will recall that on entering service the Jubilees were found to be indifferent workhorses, and much experimentation took place with superheaters and tubes, and blastpipe diameters to encourage the engines to steam.
    The LMS also experimented with a Kylchap blastpipe and double chimney on 5684 "Jutland" in 1937, but eventually opted for a simple double blastpipe without the Kylchap extras.

    Looking at comment by E S Cox, it appears that the double chimney on the Jubilees did not increase either the maximum steam output or indicated maximum horsepower, over the modified single chimney design, and that is perhaps why double chimneys did not become more widespread throughout the class. Apart from 5684 mentioned above, I can only trace 5553 "Canada" with a double chimney from 1940, 5742 "Connaught" with a double chimney removed in 1955, the same chimney that has adorned 5596 "Bahamas" since 1961. Clay in his book "Jubilees of the LMS" implies that other Jubilees did at some time carry a double blastpipe and double chimney.

    Incidentally, I recall a comment made to me many years ago at Dinting, that out on the main line, 5596 with double chimney was more economical on water than 5690, a single chimney Jubilee. Whether that is actually a sound fact or not, I dont know.

    46118
     
    46118, Sep 20, 2009
    #6
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Did it go through works then? If so, presumably the next available overhauled boiler was a double chimney one? If I remember reading correctly, there was something of a shortage of Jubilee boilers around that time.
     
    Martin Perry, Sep 20, 2009
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  8. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    5684 Jutland was fitted with a double Kylchap exhaust in 1937 as an experiment. It was converted back to single chimney after less than a year. 5553 Canada and 5742 Connaught were fitted with plain double exhausts in 1938. 5553 was soon converted back, but 5742 kept hers until 1955. In 1956 45722 went to Rugby Testing Station and was fitted with both single and double exhausts for comparison purposes. As a result of these tests 45596 was the only Jubilee to benefit from them, being fitted with a double exhaust in 1961.

    Information taken from "LMS Jubilees" by R. Essery and G.Toms
     
    std tank, Sep 20, 2009
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  9. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    std tank:
    I'm not well up enough on the technicalities, so how much modification would be required to fit a double blastpipe to a single blastpipe Jubilee? I was wondering whether it would mean fitting a new smokebox saddle, which presumably contained the blastpipe within one large casting?

    46118
     
    46118, Sep 20, 2009
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  10. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Interesting question 46118. The blastpipe is held in place on the blastpipe base using studs and nuts. The blastpipe base is within the saddle so, in theory, there are no alterations to the saddle. It should be just a question of removing the single blastpipe and fitting the double blastpipe. However, the flanged connection that supplies steam to the exhaust steam injector is situated on the rear of the single blastpipe. Without access to a drawing I cannot say exactly what alterations are required. The chimney aperture in the smokebox wrapper would have to be modified to suit the double chimney.
    Is anyone from the Bahamas group on Nat Pres who can answer 46118's question?
     
    std tank, Sep 20, 2009
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  11. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    Funny how chimneys make such a difference to the look of a loco. I really don't like the double chimney on Bahamas, but prefer the double chimney Std.4 4-6-0s to the single chimney examples - each to his own I guess!

    Dave
     
    daveannjon, Sep 20, 2009
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  12. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    That would explain things after all in 1961 I doubt they were looking for long term improvments to a class that would be gone in a few years.
     
    Pete Thornhill, Sep 20, 2009
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  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't think that the fitting of the double chimney to 45596 had anything to do with which boiler was used. Standard Tank was on the mark when he put:
    I don't think that it was considered to be a success so no more were done.
     
    Steve, Sep 20, 2009
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  14. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Cox confirmed that there was no improvement in either maximum steam output or Indicated horsepower with the double chimney versus the improved single chimney. S O Ell had produced a different blastpipe diameter and chimney choke for the BR and LMS class 5's, and this was adopted for the Jubilees, improving maximum steam output from 20,760 lbs/hour to 25,000 lbs/hour.
    Lack of improvement with the double chimney was put down to limitations elsewhere in the boiler, eg air supply and combustion conditions at the firegrate.
     
    46118, Sep 21, 2009
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