6024 Cathedrals Express to Bristol, 12th Feb

then all i can say to that is they were very lucky in there part of the cme train as it was bloody freezing all day in the buffet ;

 

I laughed out loud last night when I opened up the latest Steam Dreams newsletter to see that they are planning some overseas tours including a trip on the Trans-Siberian express! A winter trip on the Green Train should be sufficient - and much cheaper I would have thought : - )

 

I think you will find that it is mandatory for vehicles carrying passengers to be illuminated after dark and hen passing through tunnels!

 

Not sure they are all 'leaks', probably most are just the condensate drains venting as designed, otherwise the whole system would water-log and then certainly would be no heat.

 

Cathedral Express 12[SUP]th[/SUP] Feb 2012
I had a great time, but I think it is worth looking at who is responsible for passengers being left stranded at London Paddington after the underground has shut down on a Sunday night, when we NEED to get home to get to work on a Monday to pay for the steam trip! And its clear to me there are only three parties to blame

1. West Coast Railways for providing very poorly maintained shoddy rolling stock.
2. Network Rail.
3. The nut job who decided to attempt suicide in the main line.

I feel deeply sorry for:-
The excursion promoter “Steam dreams” whose excellent good natured staff had to deal with the brunt of all the cold, frustrated, worried passengers some of whom could have been less rude in my opinion, but I suppose they had paid a lot of money. But the fact remains they were effectively dumped at Pad with little or no chance of getting home to go to work the next day, after arriving home at 2am! I have had to come to work after less than 4 hours sleep So that is the very last Sunday excursion I ever do! thanks WCR & Network Rail.

The footplate and support crew of 6024 that had to deal with the poor planning and ineffectual maintenance of Network Rail, nut jobs on bridges and a carriage set with a steam heat system that was so poorly maintained and defective it was genuinely affecting the steaming of the locomotive!

They worked like Trojans and it is solely down to their heroic efforts that 6024 made it back to Pad at all, do not forget after rising at 05.00am and thrashing all day THEY had a further TWO HOURS work to complete after 6024 arrived back at Paddington, you are good natured expert gentlemen and I salute you all.

It is clear the following are entirely to blame for this shambles:-
The steam heating system leakage problem on the set provided by WCR was so acute I actually thought the loco was mid train when it arrived at PAD on Sunday morning! Only to see that the steam heat coupling between the carriages were frankly poor at best and I suggest almost entirely unserviceable in some cases

And the sight of wiring being run externally along and between coaches is a joke I didn’t see the "funny side" of! no doubt a “nice cheap fix” is far more important for WCR than actually investing in your stock! WCR would do well to remember can only “flog” a broken down circus animal for so long before all your act finally dies on you..

Had I been the promoter I think I would have cancelled the excursion before it left, the weather was very cold and if an inexperienced eye such as mine can see there was going to be a problem then surely so could an experienced promoter. {Easy for me to say with no disappointed customers to be told at zero notice face to face}

WCR you should be hanging your heads in shame, but as those who do this regularly we all know you won’t be! But your actions this weekend mean I will check with ALL excursions in future, if your providing vac braked (no rescue option available!) steam heated stock I wont be travelling, you are in my opinion the unacceptable face of the steam charter business and in my opinion the steam charter business would be well rid of you.

As for Network Rail whilst you can do nothing about nutters wanting to jump you can look after your infrastructure a lot better than you do!

 

A bit harsh maybe but you have a point. West Coast have some excellent footplate crews with some of the best steam drivers in the business on their books, but their rolling stock lets them down badly. In particular one wonders whether the Green Train gets any maintenance other than the occasional external repaint. What actually goes on at Southall? At least the Carnforth based stock seems a little better although one train I went on with RTC had the stewards supplying torches as the internal lights had failed.

Everyone is being a bit kind to Steam Dreams here I think - there is only so long you can blame your supplier for providing a poor service. The Green Train has been in poor condition for years and yet they keep on using it. At least they are talking now about getting their own train together (accompanied by a price hike of course) and I look forward to seeing it - but who is going to maintain it for them?

 

Yes - the electric train heat on 4th Feb was TOO hot (and caused the windows to steam up ... I mean ice up!). As soon as the Black 5 came on, temperatures started to drop below a reasonable level. There were questions from people who know their Mark 1 carriages about whether the steam heating controls in the carriages were working. Perhaps the linkages between these controls and the steam heat pipes need to be checked?

The PA system on this trip also crackled occasionally, but RTC had to rely on old-fashioned methods to tell everyone about the delays.

Richard

 

Hi let me clarify I am not knocking the "Coal Face Guys" at WCR just the arrogant owners! But I have to say I do feel sorry for SD's they are the one's who will be taking the financial kick in the proverbial's and they are the people who will certainly have lost a lot of future business I for one will certainly not be making ANY more Sunday excursions and I will do my level best to ensure I don’t travel with that set again but I am only one person but I would be prepared to bet I am not alone!

Also having seen some comments on the prices of rail tours now and how people are not happy at how much they are being asked to pay There is also another reason they may use that set price (Albeit a false economy IHMO) Plus a little bit of "if you don't work with us we might not be available to you in the future"!

Thanks for a courteous reply mate!



I am now going to take this opportunity to say “good bye” (good some will say) to some of the least pleasant, smug, complacent small minded individuals it has ever been my miss fortune to come across. If that is the kind of treatment this site gives to new comers then I think I can safely say you CAN expect your hobby to have a life expectancy of the members of this forum you clearly do not like newbies!

I know the fact I have only made a few posts here seems to make certain more established posters feel I couldn't possibly know what I am talking about so having no better argument they have denounced me as a troll!, and had the thread shut down (how childish is that)

But I have been around steam for quite some time and I consider myself very fortunate to have the level of access to some of THE most informed people in the Puffer game in the UK.

My opinions are formed from watching listening and discussing with THE most knowledgeable people in Steam in the UK they may still not suit some but at least they are based on sound informed information.

Good Bye

 

Puffer Nutter,
It is a shame in my eyes that you have decided to depart after only Seven posts.
I can agree with the jist of your mails concerning last Sundays train.
I understand that this one was the last one,for a while at any rate,that WCRC have any involvement in and that stock from a completely new direction has been sought.
It will be a shame not to see some of the West Coast crews,but thats about it I'm afraid

 

WOW!

Just had a wonderful letter from Steam Dreams - really nice!

 

Even by this forum's standards, this must be one for the record books. Somebody joins the forum & leaves 2 days later in disgust due to the attitudes on here. Even gets his first thread locked in the process! (even though I note mods still post on it- an actual post not an announcement). I belong to a lot of forums ( on various subjects, not just railways) but not come across one like this, full of petty squabbles & arguments. It seems everyone "knows best".

 

Just to say, I only mentioned the thread was locked, didn't really ask for any reasons as to why.

 

During 2011 the Green Set had a fortune spent on it by its owner. Heavy body repairs, mechanical overhauls, Heating and lighting overhauls and checks etc. It is probably in better shape now than any time in the last ten years. The issues on Sunday were twofold. Lack of heating, and Network delays.
Due to the prolonged cold weather the staff at Southall knew there were issues with the coaches. They spent all week repairing burst pipes etc. and getting the stock ready. WCR had no steam loco at Southall during the week, and LS could not make 6024 available until Sunday Morning, (having only returned to Sthl on Friday afternoon). Therefore there was no chance to preheat/test the steam heat on Saturday. The Green set is currently Steam Heat only. WCR advised SD of this on Saturday and advised them to consider cancelling the train. SD did not consider this an option because it would have led to people turning up on Sunday to find no train, and disappointing many people. SD and WCR were in the position of being damned if they ran a train with heating issues due to the weather, or Damned if they cancelled at short notice. All of the delays on both the outward and return were due to circumstances outside the control of WCR or SD, and some of it completely outside railway industry control. WCR ran a job on Sunday for VT. This job ran to time, and everybody went home happy. Strange that there are very few posts regarding the running of that train.
Perhaps if those people who complained about the lack of heating had complained to the people lodged in every doorway, who insist on hanging out of open droplights, even when the temperature is 5 below, a more positive outcome may have been forthcoming.

Still, to paraphrase an old media adage; Dont let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

 

Or rather why not just act as an apologist for a set of coaching stock operated by a company apparently without a conscience. Funny the way that cold weather in January/February seem to com as a surprise to all in the railway industry and they never prepare for it!

 

Well this must be one for the NP annals but I agree with buseng!

I think the way Puffer Nutter has been hounded off here after a couple of days is very disturbing. I thought we operated a democratic forum in accordance with a published set of rules and I cannot see that he has obviously broken any of these? He has posted on two topics which have already previously attracted similar comment from well established members, but for some reason he has been jumped on. What's the accusations of 'trolling' all about? I don't know who he/she is, but do the protagonists? Is this personal in some way? If PN has broken forum rules then that is a matter for the Mods to deal with, not some self-appointed lynch mob.

I'm getting rather concerned by the attitude of a few on here who believe that their view is the only one permitted, and that no criticism should be allowed of whatever it is they hold holy in our tiny little world. So if you're going to dish it out then be man enough to take it too. Having said that, equally PN should have a thicker skin.

Much more of this and I'll be off too.

 

Surely a job for the stewards, not the paying public?

 

It wouldn't matter who told them to get their heads in and shut the windows, short of posting an armed SAS man on each vestibule, the only thing they would (and have!) received is a load of abuse. The point is it's no good blaming WCR for cold coaches, when passengers insist on leaving all the windows open.
With regard to Steam Heat there are several things to remember:
1). It takes at least half an hour for Steam to get through a train when Steam is first turned on.
2). The stock needs to be warm whilst standing still, it will not get very get warm once on the move.
3). If a train changes from Electric to Steam Heat (a la CME) The Steam heat is effectively 'starting from scratch' half way through a journey. The alternative is to have a Diesel on the rear for ETH supply. Nobody would complain, would they!

WCR could build a heated, insulated carriage shed to store train sets. The cost would be astronomical, and ultimately would have to be borne by the 'customers'. That would mean a substantial increase in hire charges, and thence fares. Even this would not stop freezing up once 'out and about'. There is enough fuss on a different thread regarding the increased charges on Steam Dreams Super Salubrious Standard class, with hot and cold running topless waitress service.
Yes, I agree that it is unacceptable to have people sitting in the cold for hours, and everything reasonable should (and I believe was) done to prevent it. Solutions from the 'Steam Days' are no longer available to us now. (shore supplies, steam heating plant etc. ) Perhaps we should just lock the doors and stay indoors for the duration, and not run any trains in the winter. We can then run unhindered until May brings a fire ban until September. Run during October, until the frost shuts us down again in November.
The point is, it is, has been, and will always be a compromise. You will never appreciate what you have got until its gone.
AT

 

When they themselves are not hanging out of windows? :lol: