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Worth Valley Gala 9th-11th October

Discussion in 'Galas and Events' started by John Petley, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. KieranPilsworth

    KieranPilsworth Member

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    I'm awaiting a steaming agreement for a visiting locomotives. Once that is agreed it can be announced.

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  2. YoungRailwayMan

    YoungRailwayMan Member

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    hi kieran how many visiting locos are likely to appear at the gala 1 or 2
     
  3. KieranPilsworth

    KieranPilsworth Member

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    I have one that's 90% sorted. Others 'may' be available

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  4. Robert Batty

    Robert Batty New Member

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    Might have to rename you Harry Potter - must have worked some magic here...
     
  5. 7822WelshSteam

    7822WelshSteam Member

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    I heard that it was going to be 31806 and 34053. Is this no-longer the case?
     
  6. KieranPilsworth

    KieranPilsworth Member

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    No. Road access problems not prevent this from happening

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  7. 7822WelshSteam

    7822WelshSteam Member

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    Since when did preserved railways become about making money? Galas are a chance for interested individuals to meet up and see, photograph and ride behind locos. The railway should be putting galas on for the shear joy of it. That's how steam rallies are run. People don't worry about having too many exhibits because it might cost too much and they don't put the events on to make a profit. They only charge an entry fee so that they can put the event on again. Aren't preserved railways about preserving the past for fun? I always thought that they only charged money so that similar events could take place. I've never understood what concern it is of people who have nothing to do with a railway whether something that railway does is a good commercial decision or why it's so interesting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  8. KieranPilsworth

    KieranPilsworth Member

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    No they should not. At the end of the day (no matter if you like or not) without a successful income the Railway will go bust.

    Gala days need to make money. Period.

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  9. chris meadowcroft

    chris meadowcroft Member

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    Unfortunately this shows that you have little or no understanding of how heritage railways run, the majority of railways aim to make a profit through commercial activities that are usually supported by donations and legacies etc. Like any other business if they make too many loses then they will go bust and shut, just because the business is a heritage railway doesn't change this!
     
  10. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Heritage railways HAVE to be about making money to survive. Money that is urgently required to maintain miles of ancient infrastructure, locos and rolling stock long past the end of their economic working lives and all the other essential costs in just keeping going.

    Steam rallies are very different with steam vehicle owners effectively providing a massive unseen subsidy by providing their pride and joy effectively without charge by bearing their own costs (except perhaps coal).
     
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  11. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Its unfortunate that the word "profit" can suggest the share out of wads of cash to shareholders. In the heritage railway scene (with one exception) any "profit" is a much needed surplus desperately needed for reinvestment in the railway itself.

    In most cases this surplus is far too small for the long term level of spending actually required.
     
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  12. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    And why exactly should the host Railway subsidise this? Or is this post actually a wind up? As you proceed to contradict yourself by saving steam (presumably traction engine) rallies "only charge an entrance fee so they can put n the same event next year", i.e. to cover cover costs and ensure they don't bankrupt the organisors, you do seem to actually accept that an event should not run at a loss. In fact, one of the longest running traction engine rallies round where I live was started specifically to make a surplus to support the local town hall!

    The difference between many traction engine rallies and heritage railway is it is easier to identify "the cost" of staging the rally because the land-owner will charge a specific rent for the event. To operate a gala, or a single train on a single day, a heritage Railway needs to have an operational, and SAFE stretch of railway line. The cost of that is enormous. In Keighley's case, they have a number of major metal bridges, and at some point, these will need very expensive and major work (I believe one has already had about £ 1/4 million spent on it). Without them, they would lose access to Keighley. How much of the cost of maintaining those, or the track, do you put down to each event?

    No heritage railway makes a long term "profit" in the normal sense, but the major costs cannot be easily identified against an individual day's running, or operating any given departure. That doesn't prevent them being costs. For the multi-loco galas which you seem to be expecting, 6 to 8 bunches of people will have spent between them probably £1 million to £4 million restoring the locos concerned. Coaches cost into 6 figures to fully overhaul even if complete, well over that to restore from departmental or "hen-house" condition. Track is into 6 figures per mile, a "small" bridge is £100,000 plus, signalling work is expensive, complicated and a specialist and dying art, were it not for volunteers and staff learning the skills. all this takes place so you can (hopefully) pay under £50/head for a ticket, or in some cases, some just stand in a field with a camera and complain that they were charged a quid for a timing sheet!

    Sorry, it that is a rant! Some of us have to balance these demands, have to make that judgement and nearly always get told we got it wrong - "we needed an extra loco", "we could have done without XXXXX", "why isn't XXXXX running - I am a shareholder in it?!" Often, circumstances mean that actually nobody made decisions not to have locos, they can't come or aren't available. I really do feel for Kieran and the KWVR team over the hand of cards life has dealt them, on this Gala, and I wish them all the best for a successful event.

    And why does it matter to people at other Railways? Well, speaking personally, the fact that one or two lines throw the kitchen sink at every event, always setting themselves a higher bar to meet at the next event also raises expectations elsewhere. Each line has its own circumstances but when some must be spending £50,000 plus on hiring and transporting locos for some events, you do have to question (and I have actually heard the question asked by senior officials of at least one line which once spent nearly £70,000 on hire and haulage, including a set of coaches!) whether they would have made more by running their normal service. There are other reasons for Galas, such as providing variety for crews and a "thank-you" to both working and non-working members, but these are exactly the people with the sense to question whether too much has been spent in doing so.

    Steven
     
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  13. 7822WelshSteam

    7822WelshSteam Member

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    Thanks for providing a decent answer without blowing your top, which seems to be a little too much to ask! That makes sense. I'm guessing the exception also runs riverboats! I didn't expect to touch such a nerve with this post but you're quite right. I have absolutely nothing to do with organising galas or running a railway. I volunteered on one for 14 days but could not find the time and gave up. One thing I will say is that I have spent a sizable chunk of every penny I have ever made on heritage railways and I'm a member of the KWVR.
     
  14. D7076

    D7076 Well-Known Member

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    As incorrect an assumption as the rest of the garbage you wrote. I have a concern as a KWVR life member since before you were born. Also because of how KWVR doesn't waste money ,I donate to their appeals such as for 41241,whereas I won't donate to railways that waste money transporting in locos for galas without checking paperwork isn't in order in advance or that the locos are fit for purpose .
     
  15. 7822WelshSteam

    7822WelshSteam Member

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    We've already been through that. See my previous comment.
     
  16. 7822WelshSteam

    7822WelshSteam Member

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    That's precisely why I leave the decision-making to the people who should know what they're doing and don't post rubbish about how there are too many good engines at a gala. I'm not sure how my age comes into it but I'm glad you looked at my profile. I hope you enjoyed it. I've been a member since 2001. I'm not sure how that's relevant but you seem to enjoy member-measuring. I've probably been a member of the KWVR for a larger percentage of my life than you have.
     
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  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Mate I sort of see your point BUT galas do have to make Few quid much as say Mr Ralls or Mr Benham love their respective railways I dont think their in this for the good of their health! The bottom line is these events have to pay for themselves we do live in a capitalist society Im afraid. :)
     
  18. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

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    Talk about thread drift! :rolleyes:

    The poor souls in charge of sorting the guests for this gala are knee deep in the brown stuff, thanks to no fault of their own, trying to rescue the situation, and all people can do is whinge about it!

    Gala's like any event have to make money otherwise there's no point on putting them on. ;)

    All I want to know is, at some point in the near future is to know what is supposed to turn up - and then I can make an informed decision ass whether to persuade the Mrs to part with some hard earned for a wekend in Yorkshire as my birthday prezzie! :) (that'll cost her. :Shamefullyembarrased:)
     
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  19. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Nicely put
     
  20. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    How long does it take to travel to these via public transport?
     

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